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What is your faith?

  • Catholic

    Votes: 25 9.4%
  • Anglican

    Votes: 9 3.4%
  • Jehovah's Witness

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • Other Christian

    Votes: 17 6.4%
  • Muslim

    Votes: 9 3.4%
  • Other Eastern

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Scientology

    Votes: 3 1.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 28 10.5%
  • Atheist/No religion

    Votes: 158 59.4%
  • snake fanatic

    Votes: 10 3.8%

  • Total voters
    266
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have studied religion at great length, through to uni level... I have done years of bible exorgesis, interpretation etc., listened to leaders from all faiths.

At the end of it all, I am not religious. The bible contradicts itself constantly, and the most intelligent, progressive Christians I have spoken to basically say "oh none of it is literal, it is all just analogy etc." and I think, well, then why not just say 'it's a made up story, but I take what I will from it eg. values and morals.'

The whole burning babies thing gets me - I mean, WHAT sort of God, who is ALL POWERFUL and ALL KNOWING allows infants to be brutally tortured, toddlers to be raped, children to be beaten etc?

I have never managed to get a straight answer from a Christian on this. In over 10 years of study and research!



PS - can't believe the OP left off Judaism!
 
Actually I'd like to use this oppurtunity to ask the believers (the Christian types) how they personally come to terms with the contradictions and inaccuracies of the Bible. For instance, what (credible) historical sources do you use that prove that Jesus walked the earth? Remember, the Bible isn't an historically credible souce.
 
Part6icularly not when there are PLENTY of other documents from the same time that contradict it!
 
I like the Frisbytarian religion... "I believe when you die, your soul gets stuck on the roof and you can't get it down". Classic.
 
KaneMortlock I believe you are either a pathological liar or completely insane. Furthermore, agnosticism is not the most intelligent stance but rather more of a cop out. Though there may not be any absolutely conclusive evidence to deny the existence of god atheism is still by far the most intelligent stance given that the improbability of the existence of god is so great. Not only do we take into account the various hypocracies and inaccuracies of the bible but also the number of religions claiming to be correct. Add to this the fact that genuine miracles have not occured (and your own possibly narcotic induced episodes certainly dont count) since the beginning of the age of science and reason. As a scientifically minded person I can admit that currently we as a species do not have the facility to understand the nature of existence and the beginning of the universe, how it happened and why it happened, but nor do I go and make up silly stories to fill the void, instead I believe we must strive to produce knowledge through EVIDENCE.
 
I like this thread - I am a little intrigued by all those who do not believe in God. What then is the purpose of your life? I mean it's quite an important question if you step back and ask yourself, is it not? This is your whole LIFE we are talking about, the reason behind your existence? Are we to assume that this complex and complicated thing called "human" exists without purpose? We live, eat, drink, work and die? Nothing comes after that? Life = pointless then does it not?

Poeple spend their whole lives working so that they may one day own a house and live in it. People spend 8-12 hours a day working (thats 1/3 - 1/2) your life when you look at it. That one house that they have worked towards is one house on one street.. which is one street in one suburb.. which is one suburb in one city... which is one city in one state... one state in one country... one country in coninent... one continent on one plant.. so on and so forth.. it seems totally insignificant doesn't it? Something you spend your entire pointless little existence towards is so insignificant when looked at the big picture - and then at the end of the day you have nothing to look forward to as your existence ends with your death..:shock::shock::shock:
 
I like this thread - I am a little intrigued by all those who do not believe in God. What then is the purpose of your life? I mean it's quite an important question if you step back and ask yourself, is it not? This is your whole LIFE we are talking about, the reason behind your existence? Are we to assume that this complex and complicated thing called "human" exists without purpose? We live, eat, drink, work and die? Nothing comes after that? Life = pointless then does it not?

Poeple spend their whole lives working so that they may one day own a house and live in it. People spend 8-12 hours a day working (thats 1/3 - 1/2) your life when you look at it. That one house that they have worked towards is one house on one street.. which is one street in one suburb.. which is one suburb in one city... which is one city in one state... one state in one country... one country in coninent... one continent on one plant.. so on and so forth.. it seems totally insignificant doesn't it? Something you spend your entire pointless little existence towards is so insignificant when looked at the big picture - and then at the end of the day you have nothing to look forward to as your existence ends with your death..:shock::shock::shock:

Sheikh Khalid Yassin? ;) :)
 
Wow, that's a bleak outlook on it, oshakoor!

I prefer to look at it this way: We are on this earth for a finite time, we must do our best to make a difference while we are here - atheists love our friends, care for our neighbours, try in our own small way to make the world a better place and raise our families to do likewise. Atheists also do these things for altruistic reasons, rather than because there is the promise of heaven at the end of it! Religious people don't have the monopoly on being good, productive members of society you know!

In its most reduced form, we are animals, instinctively predetermined to pass on our genes as effectively as possible. I recognise that this instinctive biological need isn't necessarily always relevant in today's modern, Western society, but essentially I believe we are all just animals, albeit highly evolved ones.

I certainly don't think that living a good life surrounded by your loved ones for 80-odd years, raising kids, making friends, caring for your family through good and bad times, death, marriage and birth is futile and pointless. I do, however think that your view reinforces my earlier statement that many people use religion as a crutch to help them deal with the scary concept of mortality.
 
I like this thread - I am a little intrigued by all those who do not believe in God. What then is the purpose of your life? I mean it's quite an important question if you step back and ask yourself, is it not? This is your whole LIFE we are talking about, the reason behind your existence? Are we to assume that this complex and complicated thing called "human" exists without purpose? We live, eat, drink, work and die? Nothing comes after that? Life = pointless then does it not?

Poeple spend their whole lives working so that they may one day own a house and live in it. People spend 8-12 hours a day working (thats 1/3 - 1/2) your life when you look at it. That one house that they have worked towards is one house on one street.. which is one street in one suburb.. which is one suburb in one city... which is one city in one state... one state in one country... one country in coninent... one continent on one plant.. so on and so forth.. it seems totally insignificant doesn't it? Something you spend your entire pointless little existence towards is so insignificant when looked at the big picture - and then at the end of the day you have nothing to look forward to as your existence ends with your death..:shock::shock::shock:

We're the same as any other organism. Our 'purpose' is to breed and further the species.
We are insignificant but life is what you make it. Not believing in a higher power does not denote that one's life is pointless.
I understand that the idea of being alone during an existance that doesn't have some higher purpose scares alot of people. Hence the construction of gods.

Why not take life at face value? Imagine just living life for the sake of it and enjoying it for what it is, not what it could be. You'd never have to fear any kind of punishment simply for being human. Nor would you ever have to worry about living a life constrained by constricting ideology. You can think what you like, love whomever you choose, and be content that you'll never have a crisis of faith. Freedom of choice and thought is actually a good thing ;)
But that's a negative thing you say?

Each to their own. If you prefer being told how to live and what to think and believing in magic helps you sleep at night then good for you :)
 
The point is to reproduce, like every other animal.
Life is somewhat pointless and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, sure.

I guess if other species were intelligent enough to ponder life and death, they
would create religions for themselves as well, or maybe its lucky they don't know
how meaningless their lives are .. <(^_^ )>
 
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Are you serious, you know what they say - Pics or it didnt happen.




Drugs are bad kiddies


Here is a still taken from video footage that proves God is real.
southparkgod.jpg
 
how do u know which is the right god to worship?

all the religions available must be sharing the same god, and the organisers of the religions are telling their congregations the rules.

eg, if catholics are right the vast majority of the population is going to hell cos most people use contraception.
and how can gay people be rejected when forgiviness is meant to be a major factor in religion.

theyre all so hypocritical and different i'd rather not pee off the wrong god and go to hell even though i've dedicated my life to something 'spiritual'.

not something i go for personally, but if people feel they like the support of the community theyve found thru religion, then good for them! :)
 
I was an agnostic, the only intelligent, scientific position to take in the absence of evidence/data one way or the other. When you have not experienced anything to prove or disprove God's existence or encountered anyone else who has, "I don't know" seems to me the only logical, rational position to take. For all you people who call yourselves atheists out there, who are not only saying, "I don't know" but have lept to the conclusion "There is nothing," what evidence/data do you base that attitude upon? If you have experienced no evidence that disproves God's existence, how would you know? A lack of data (a lack of evidence that God exists) is not sufficient to draw the conclusion that He does not exist. Believe it or not, if God does exist, letting you in on it may not be on the top of His to do list.

So I think agnosticism in the absence of any evidence is the intelligent position, atheism is a presumption without sufficient evidence to support it.

Now, I said I was an agnostic.

In 1998, over the Port Hacking river south of Sydney, I heard a powerful voice come down out of heaven that sounded like a choir singing in harmony with many different parts of different pitches, but I think it came from a single being. This voice that came down out of heaven sounding like a choir singing asked one question:

"Who would offend the Son?"

I had no religious upbringing of any kind up to this point in my life, but I heard "the Son" and immediately thought of Jesus Christ because the definite article was used. "Who would offend "THE" Son" was said, not "Who would offend "A" Son". If the angel had of used the indefinite article and said "... a Son" I may even have gone on to thinking it meant me. But anyway, "...THE Son" meant Christ to me and I immediately went to my university book shop and bought a bible and started reading (I did not own one at the time).

I deferred from my law degree and started reading the bible a book per day and an amazing life began to unfold for me whereby a revelation/miracle/vision would occur and then shortly afterwards I would read the passage of scripture that explained what just happened. The bible has been brought to life before my eyes. I have seen the truth of the things written in it with my own eyes. For example, almost the first thing that occurred was an amazing rainbow appeared right outside my window over the Port Hacking river one day. It was centred exactly on my parents house but more important was the astounding brightness of this rainbow. It was like neon, the colour was like a solid entity, I have never seen anything like it before or afterwards. It was so bright that my response was to immediately drop what I was doing in awe and grab a camera and start to take photos of the rainbow just because of how beautiful it was. The pictures I took of this rainbow are impressive, but don't do the reality of the brightness of this rainbow justice. Not long after I saw this I read Genesis 9:8-17 which says:

"And God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him saying, "And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; and with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
And God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do put my rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the rainbow shall be in the cloud and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
And God said to Noah, this is the sign of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth."

I realise that some people will single out that one event as "something that occurs naturally" blah, not realising how much I cannot write here that has occurred. I have seen the most unlikely miracles recorded in the bible demonstrated to me to prove them true. As I was reading and these revelations were occurring daily I was convicted by the fear of a God so great and assured of the need to obey his Son Jesus Christ because you believe His promises to escape judgement day and live for all eternity.

I went to "Christian ministers" with a desire to talk about these things but quickly discovered that what those who called themselves "Christian ministers" teach as "Christianity" today did not accord with my own understanding given by revelation at all. And the amazing thing was that after not much more than 6 months worth of these revelatory events and me reading the bible, I could win arguments with these ministers using the bible. Some of these ministers had been ministers for years and studied the bible and been taught man's teachings diligently, etc., etc. and yet when I was debating with them, their arguments against the necessity of obeying Christ to be saved by Him could not stand before the scriptures I could recite to them.

An event that occurred in Israel, in the mountains of Jerusalem in about June of the year 2000 is representative. I travelled to Israel in January 2000 looking for people who were open minded enough and/or faithful enough to believe that the things I was saying were happening to me were possible. The official teaching of Christianity there in protestant circles was as bad as anywhere and at this particular time I went and visited a "church" that called itself charasmatic. Now, I didn't have any knowledge of the charasmatic "church" at this time, but I was apalled at what I witnessed occurring at this "business".

One day there, (I was living in a tent in the backyard), I noticed a messianic jewish man wearing his skullcap as religious jews do and it stood out to me because I had just been reading 1 Corinthians 11:3-4

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying having his head covered dishonours his head."

Now this messianic jewish man was attending these "pray meetings" with his skullcap on (covering his head) and I was worried that this was dishonouring Christ. So I humbly went up to the man this day outside the building and read 1 Corinthians 11 with him and humbly asked him if he thought he should wear his skullcap while he prayed. I was a very shy 23 year old at the time who was quite bashful about what had happened to me because I was intelligent enough to know full well what it made many people think of me. But even stated humbly, this man ignored what I said to him and just walked away from me into the building where the "prayer meeting" was starting. I walked inside after him into an interior room that had no access to the outside (no windows, etc.) and the prayer meeting started. Immediately an amazing thing happened. This man I had showed the scripture to was standing across the room from me, about 8 feet away. Suddenly his skullcap flew off his head and across the room and landed at my feet! The man quickly came over, bowed down at my feet and picked his skullcap up off the floor ... but put it back on his head (and clipped it back onto his hair I noticed too, so I presume it was clipped originally too) and then walked away, still with it on his head and continued what he was doing as though nothing had happened? I couldn't believe this man just continued as though nothing had happened! I was standing there astounded wondering how many other times in the man's life his skullcap had impersonated a UFO for no apparent reason. There was no wind, there was no pressure change. It was an internal room with no windows, no one opened a door. The skullcap flew with no reason to do so at all! The fact that it did so straight after I showed him the scripture surely should have been enough for anyone to realise in his circumstances that something weird had just happened? But this miraculous sign was lost on this man. It was not lost on me and such miracles have occurred a number of times over the past decade to testify to the truth of my teaching.

I ended up being kicked out of this "church" for standing up for the truth of Christ's words. A preacher at the front was preaching a very popular false doctrine which I didn't know much about then, but that I would come to know well as it is taught nearly everywhere as "Christianity" when it is not. What I now know as the substitionary atonement doctrine was being preached in all its disobedience allowing falsehood from the front of the room. I was sitting in a large group of people hearing this rubbish, yet too timid at this stage to stand up and object to what I was hearing. Finally the preacher said some things that directly contradicted Christ's words and this motivated me into action. The preacher said, "You don't have to do anything. You don't have to try. Christ's done it all. Christ's sacrifice is for your sins and you don't have to do anything. You don't have to try."

I recalled Luke 13:23-28

"Then said one unto him [Jesus], "Lord, are there few that be saved?"
And He said unto them, "Strive to enter through the narrow door, for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and has shut the door and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us", and he shall answer and say to you, "I do not know you. Where do you come from?"
Then shall you begin to say, "We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and you have taught in our streets." But He shall say, "I tell you I know nothing of you, or from whence you come. Depart from me all of you, you and your wicked ways!" There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out."

The important point here being that Christ advises to "strive", "strain every nerve", "struggle on", "fight", "do your utmost", "make every effort" to enter the kingdom of heaven (various translations). This preacher said, and I quote, "You don't have to try". This direct contradiction that would destroy peoples' souls if listened to spurred me into action. I stood up, very nervous, and humbly and apologetically said, "Excuse me, I'm sorry for interrupting, but what you just said directly contradicts Christ. You just said we don't have to try, but Christ advises us to make every effort, to strive, and warns us to do so because many people will not make it to the Kingdom of Heaven." The owner of the establishment stood straight up and incorrectly said, "No she didn't." I went to answer her "Yes she did, it says right here ..." and intended to read the scripture, but she said in a very loud and commanding voice over the top of me, "Sit down!" - and at this very early stage of what hapened to me, being a bashful 23 year old who was still embarassed at the things that had happened to him because telling people about them made people consider him an idiot or a liar, I did what this woman commanded and sat down.

That afternoon I sought out this woman and the preacher and an elder as I wanted to read the bible with them and humbly show them how what I said was correct. These people were not interested in what Christ said, though. The woman who owned the establishment went and got my backpack and because she couldn't carry it, she dragged it outside into the street and threw it out. She then came and told me to leave. I protested that I just wanted to read the bible with them, but she was in a complete rage, her face screwed up with anger. And so I left and walked down Ha'Navim street to the King Faisal hostel and booked a room for the night.

The next morning, as I awoke, something that had never happened to me before happened. As I awoke, right in the moment of gaining full consciousness I was stopped from the last part of waking and held at a level of consciousness I have never been at before or since. I was not asleep, but I was not full alert either. A figure appeared to me made of pure light. This figure was obviously Jesus Christ. Jesus, made of light, moved a sword of light he was holding to the top of one of my shoulders and then moved it over my head and rested it onto my other shoulder, like a King knighting one of his vassals. The exact moment this finished, I was released into full consciousness, sitting upright. I then got up, got dressed and walked to the internet room at this hostel. As I opened the door to enter, a woman was exiting at the same moment. I opened the door and she was right there, in front of me. Her eyes went blank and she moved her arm slowly to the top of one of my shoulders and then over my head to rest upon my other shoulder, in an exact replication of what Christ had just done! As soon as she had finished this "knighting" motion, her eyes snapped back to consciousness and she pushed past me as though nothing had happened.

Christ had rewarded me for standing up for the fact you must make every effort to obey his teachings to enter the kingdom of heaven.

So many other things have happened over the past decade that I don't begin to have space to tell you. But I will try to say a couple of things:

1. God exists. Jesus exists and is the Son of God. I have seen Christ alive a number of times with my own eyes and have heard His voice with my own ears. I am a witness to Christ's resurrection and to the fact that another, eternal life exists after this life.

2. Current Christian teaching is universally inaccurate in my experience to date. If you have been taught that believing "Christ died for you" is Christianity, then you have been taught falsely. Faith in Christ is faith in His words, not faith in His death. At this stage, I have had some experience with this false, atonement teaching and think I have a fair idea what you have been taught. Enough to presume to say, "No, I'm not preaching a "works-based" salvation, and what's more, you don't understand what Paul meant by the word "ergon" (in Greek) in that passage." There are many things you do not understand rightly if you have been taught this. But if you are honest and diligent and prepared to search the scriptures diligently to see if what I say is true, message me and God willing I'll happily read some bible with you and we'll see what you think of what you have been taught then. Is it possible that man has it wrong? Can men make mistakes? If you can countenance the possiblity that what you have been taught could be wrong, that it is possible, then message me. Don't bother if you just want to spout out the usual errors taught by this teaching. I've encountered them. I've disproved them scripturally. I'm aware of them.

3. To the JWs, In Egypt it was confirmed to me that I'm a member of the 144 000 from the tribe of Dan. A couple of your members have knocked on my door over the years, (which for everyone's value is a pretty comic scene when a JW or "Mormon" knocks on my door ... they don't know what they are getting into to! lol), they started by trying to show me where other brands of Christianity were wrong, and I agreed with them. But when I showed the JWs where they were wrong, for this knowledge, they had no ears. Is it a great thing to be able to point out the mistakes of others but not to recognise your own? I had a long discussion with an elder man and publicly he would not admit his error while privately he said things to me like, "I cannot advance past my "church"," indicating that he recognised privately what I said was correct but was not willing to put Christ before the JWs. This is a big mistake. Your loyalty must always be to Christ first and if you find Christ and JW teaching does not accord, you must choose Christ, not your brand.

4. To everyone who has seen nothing and heard nothing and does not know whether God exists or not: I was in that position once. All I can do is tell you what I have seen and heard. God really does exist. The bible really is true. I realise how unlikely/implausible that may sound to some, but it really is true. Oh, for those who will attack the messenger and play the man, not the ball: A number of revelations that have happened to me happened in front of other people as well. So it is not only my eyes and ears and mind you are relying on. A number of people have seen and heard the same miraculous thing at once, so you'll have to do a little better than an imperceptive "you're a nutter." It would take being interested enough to get to know me to realise that I'm not. The other ploy, "You're a liar"? Firstly, I have never accepted a cent from anyone in over a decade on account of what has happened to me (can any two bit "minster" say the same who wrongly refrains from working?). I come from a rich family, I don't need and won't accept any money. I've got degrees in law, arts and psychology and am currently on scholarship as a PhD candidate at university, so I make my own living, thank you very much. So there goes the con-job theory.

So what you are left with is a man who seems reasonable and competent and who is obviously honest to a fault who says and is obviously convinced he has seen enough evidence of God and Christ's existence to live a life totally aimed at the next life.

This post has mainly been testimony, not teaching, I'm saving any teaching of the truth for those who are serious and message me, but I will say generally to all that there will be a day where Jesus Christ judges everyone one on what they have done in this life. Many will go to a place of punishment. Few will go to a place described as paradise. If you want to escape eternal punishment and live forever as a child of God:

1. Believe/obey Christ's words
2. Stop trying to direct your own steps through life according to your own thoughts, instead recall Christ's words and put them into action instead of your own thoughts so that it is no longer you who live, but Christ who lives in you through his words living in you and thus you become part of the body of Christ with the mind of Christ (His words). Literally stop doing what you think. Instead, ask yourself, "What does Jesus say?", recall a command/promise and then in the uprightness of your conscience and the integrity of your heart seek to apply it to your circumstances. Then do whatever you honestly believe is required of you by applying Christ's words to your circumstances. Then ask yourself "What does Jesus say?" and do it again and so forth as much as you can, as often as you can.
3. Never intentionally, knowing what you are doing, defiantly disobey Christ's commands. This is falling away, and there is no sacrifice for such wilful, intentional, defiant sin in the accurate knowledge of the truth.
4. Make every effort to intentionally obey Christ using this method to the point of death.

For example: If a person comes up to you and slaps you on one cheek:

Those uncalled who live without God and outside the covenants of God will think and do whatever seems right to them, whether it is bashing the person, running away, etc. etc. So live those who do not know Christ, they do whatever seems right to them, and this is the rebellion against God that must be turned away (repented) from.

A Christian may immediately recollect Christ's words, "If anyone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also." This Christian can then:

a. Obey Christ and turn the other cheek because he believes Christ's promise that if anyone keeps His teaching, they shall never know death (they will live forever - John 8:51). When a Chistian recollects and faithfully obeys this way, it is actually God acting in that Christian through the Word of God in that Christian.

or the Christian can:

b. Not recollect the words of God and as a reflex action run away. This is a Christian acting without the word of God in him/her. It is not like those without God because the Christian would do what God said if they remembered, but it is not as good as the Christian who recalls God's words and puts those into practice because of belief in God's promises. This Christian needs to ask themself: "What does Jesus say?" and get back to applying that to their circumstances so they are doing God's will as quickly as possible.

or when slapped on one cheek a Christian can:

c. Not recall God's words and hit the person back as a reflex action before they think of anything. This is an unintentional sin. Note the word "unintentional", it is very important. Not that many people who call themself Christian know it, but there is an enormous difference between unintentional sins, mistakes, human imperfection, and wilful, defiant, intentional sin (knowing you are doing something against God and doing it anyway). In God's convenants atonement is only provided for unintentional sin, for mistakes, it is not provided for wilful, defiant, intentional sin (for telling God to get stuffed). Yes, most of you have never heard this before. Yes, it is basic and essential knowledge to understand how God's covenants work. Numbers 15:22-31; Psalm 19:12-13; Hebrews 10:26-17 will show you where the basic concept is introduced, where David refers to it and where it is recognised as being part of the New covenant under Christ. Surprising what you can not know? That is only the beginning, but anyway, back to the example,

d. the Christian is slapped, thinks of nothing and as a reflex hits the person, then thinks, "oops!" That Christian must repent of their unintentional sin. They must confess that sin. They must forgive others any sins they have done to them. Then, thanks to the grace purchased by Christ's death that is administered through Christ's words, that person can be forgiven because of their obedient belief in what God has promised them (note; not because they believe in Christ's death). So this Christian says sorry to the person they hit. Confesses openly that they have sinned unintentionally by doing so. Forgives this person for slapping them and everyone else for everything they have done to them. Belatedly remembers to turn the other cheek and does so, although the situation has past now. Reminds themself to think of that next time and do it next time if they are given the chance. And this Christian's unintentional sin is forgiven them.

Lastly, a Christian who is slapped on the cheek can:

e. Having remembered the command of Christ to turn the other cheek and appreciating that intentional obedience is required of them to be saved and that intentional, wilful, defiant disobedience is falling away to destruction. WIth all of that right knowledge in place, this Christian can, for whatever reason, reject Christ's command, reject Christ's promise of destruction for disobeying him (thus showing they do not believe), say "Stuff you God!" and wilfully, defiantly, knowledgably disobey by hitting the person who slapped them. This is wilful, defiant, intentional sin for which there is no sacrifice. This person has fallen away and now has nothing left but the fearful expectation of the judgement of God. I would say to such a person (and you cannot be such a person until you are taught the truth accurately in the first place so as far as I'm concerned no one here can be such a person for acts they have done in the past) I would say to such a person that they repent and triple their efforts for Christ for the rest of their lives in the hope that maybe He might somehow forgive them. Never give up! But that is a position that you never want to be in as a Christian. For it will be worse for you than if you had never known the commandment of truth.

There may be those who try to take issue with what I have written. Straight away I say that it is not an attempt at diligent teaching, there is no room. It is merely a character sketch to show people what is a non-Christian, what is a Christian who is recollected, what is a Christian who is temporarily not recollected and what is no longer a Christian, but someone who has fallen away.

I warn you not to accuse me of wrongdoing. If you think I have made an error, then message me with your bible and be prepared to use it. If you can show me where I have erred scripturally then I will rejoice because you will have added to me. But if I show you how little you know rightly, what will your reaction be?

The offer is there.

"Truly I say to you, if anyone keeps My words, they shall never know death." - JESUS (John 8:51)

I have seen Jesus alive with my own eyes. Believe him and do it no matter what the cost.

Kane called Brent.
Crack is a hell of a drug
 
I was an agnostic, the only intelligent, scientific position to take in the absence of evidence/data one way or the other. When you have not experienced anything to prove or disprove God's existence or encountered anyone else who has, "I don't know" seems to me the only logical, rational position to take. For all you people who call yourselves atheists out there, who are not only saying, "I don't know" but have lept to the conclusion "There is nothing," what evidence/data do you base that attitude upon?

As was stated earlier, there are too many BAD things in this world. If there was a god he's got a pretty twisted sence of humour to be lettin half the crap go on that is like Rapists,pedophiles,murderers,politicians;),Tsunamis,Earthquakes,etc Thats evidence enough for me that religion is ummm.......BOGUS.

Agnostic is just a fancy name for fence-sitter isn't it?
 
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