OPMV defamation

[biggie]

i hope for the rest of his collection that it is all untrue and good luck to anyone involved

 

[CodeRed]

Codered
Please don’t go down the path of claiming that I have glossed over anything as people who know me, also know that I never operate that way.
So please explain how I have glossed over anything?
I have since asked Luke about your condition claims and according to Luke the reptiles looked (externally) perfectly fine when he sent them, e.g. no retained eye scale and no neck kink that was ever noticed by him and his reptiles always had water and he does not believe for a second he had sent dehydrated reptiles.
Luke also went on to say that the kid himself said he could not notice one but the vet said it apparently had one?
Since you supposedly have further details (as evident), why don’t you enlighten us further?
Did you actually see and examine the three pythons when they arrived? Or are you going by what has been told to you?
Have you seen the exact wording on this vets report for yourself?
If you have, please tell us the wording.

As far as the inexperience of the kid, I directly refer the meaning of this in the way he handled the situation by defamation without due process and his clear lack of understanding of the diagnosis of the virus, simple as that really.
Furthermore it doesn’t matter who the vet or how respected he might be, (but thanks for letting me know) if he can’t prove 100% that there was OPMV it doesn’t provide anything more valid than if his grandmother wrote it. Without seeing the exact wording of his report myself, I can only guess but I highly doubt he is brave enough to claim or write that it was OPMV conclusive.
It is far more likely that he may have wrote symptoms consistent with OPMV which of cause does not mean it has been confirmed.
I can’t wait to see.

Frogman
I do not know the exact amount of hatchlings he lost through excess heat, but it wasn’t very many out of the four clutches and I did warn him that there could possibly be further deaths and this has proven true with two Stimsons you being one of them.
Luke in this case has learnt a hard lesson and let’s sincerely hope there isn’t a more major one about to be learnt.

funcouple
Luke is doing a family thing this weekend and I am sure he will comment in due course.

You have a PM with all the details. The facts are indisputable.

I agree this matter should be dealth with between buyer and seller and not on APS (last place on earth this should be dealth with).

 

[solar 17]

opmv......? & A

Three quaters of the posts on this thread wouldn't stand up in court but two points that haven't been raised [unless l missed them]....the cost at present [without discounts or mates rates] is approx. $450.00 done in the USA. ....BUT THAT DOESN,T MEAN AT $140.00 THE PERSON DIDN'T GET IT DONE ...the second point for those curious at present these tests are post mortem [after death] ......cheers solar 17 [Baden]

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Eylandt
Yes I am only going on what I have been told and at this stage simply asking a question of codered to establish facts. I hardly see how your little pun is relevant if I haven’t attacked or accused him of anything yet.
Ramsayi
I really don’t know what is written for sure but yes if its says what you and I suspect it may says , I will disregard it as being confirmed but investigate it further including spending what ever it costs to send tissues to the states for further examination if possible.

 

[Freeloader]

So two out of four clutches surely doesn't constitute an OPMV incident in the whole collection.
If there was there would have been a hell of a lot more deaths than two.
I spoke to Luke when my stimson died. Was i concerned about the way and how quickly it died after delivery? Yes i was, we both were. Did i say it was OPMV? Absolutely not.

 

[Eylandt]

if he can’t prove 100% that there was OPMV it doesn’t provide anything more valid than if his grandmother wrote it.

Not the way it works sorry. Its very hard to conclusively diagnose anything 100%. When a patient enters a hospital presenting symptoms "consistant with MRSA" they are treated as though they have MRSA until proven otherwise. Same with most other medical illnesses. The opinions made by a medical practitioner is not disregarded because a diagnosis has not been 100% proven.

Reading over this thread this is what I (someone completely unrelated to both parties) sees.

A buyer has taken their recently aquired Reptile to a VET as it has died suddenly. This VET has examined the "patient" and has reported that based on his examination he believes the symptoms are "consistant with OPMV".

This buyer has then, for whatever reason, contacted other people and reported his findings and as such a copy of the report has been requested.

Meanwhile you are on here beating your chest over a situation that really involves you just as much as it involves me attempting to belittle the buyer by taking stabs at his "inexperience" and "age" while the Seller focuses more on saving his reputation rather then focusing on the claim itself as well as the health and safety of his and his buyers collections.

Any animals on the market by this seller should be IMMEDIATELY removed, other possible or previous purchasers should be notified and an email/phone call should be made to the VET [email protected] or 02 9572 6854 to discuss the report that has been made.

Instead of argueing against the buyer over what has happened you should be working with him and his VET in an attempt to resolve it.

 

[Eylandt]

I spoke to Luke when my stimson died. Was i concerned about the way and how quickly it died after delivery? Yes i was, we both were. Did i say it was OPMV? Absolutely not.

If Ive read correctly the buyer didnt make the conclusion, infact the thought probably didnt even cross his mind. He took the animal to a VET and was told the symptoms were consistant with OPMV.

 

[Freeloader]

I didn't take mine to the vet , just put it down to one of those things that happens.

 

[biggie]

i doubt we will ever know there are to many people involved in this now if they wanted it covered up then it is a possibility its already done unfortunately they have the conections and stock between them to make it all disappear if thats what they wanted im not saying it is happening but i think it is a possibility concidering the value of people's collections

 

[bk201]

theres no facts really mostly made up stories all people not directly involved in this story can know is that
someone sold a snake someone braught it it died...and then people were told by the buyer that it was opmv no other facts have been told no proof has been told or shown either . all i know is that if i braught a snake it died and was confirmed to be opmv i would post up some proof and i would post the proof to the seller instead of just telling a select few through private message so if there was a possibility of it it could be contained and not affect alot of other people...
people need to put there torches and pitch forks down until proof is presented as thats the only way anything can be shown no sense argueing over stuff no one understands as only the possible vet and the buyer have actually any chance to present evidence either way.

 

[Freeloader]

The other stimson i have from the same delivery is doing fine with no problems whatsoever. If one had OPMV then surely this one would have shown the same symptoms at the same time or close to. It just hasn't happened. I say this because they were in the same bag tied about 200mm apart. There blows the OPMV theory.

 

[Kersten]

I'm reminded of why I don't sell reptiles on the internet. I also understand now why some long term keepers end up with reputations for being narky and/or reclusive.

OPMV consistent? So it showed symptoms that could have been explained by anything from a bad shed to a respiratory infection or (as has been suggested) exposure to extreme temperatures. Seems to me that OMPV is the ADD of the herp world.

 

[itbites]

Where exactly is this thread going?
And what was the purpose to it being created & publicly exposed?

I don't agree that this matter should ever have been made public on a forum.

 

[Sdaji]

Any snake death is consistent with OPMV. Look at what is written about OPMV. The symptoms include everything possibly imaginable. They range from absolutely nothing over a period of years, to sudden death with no symptoms, to something identical to a respiratory infection, to stargazing, loss of balance, refusal to eat, sluggishness, hyperactivity, fits, loss of body condition... the list goes on and on, and the symptoms can include any combination of the symptoms, including none of them! The path lab test is useless, so how can a snake die and not be 100% consistent with OPMV? You can't rule out OPMV in any snake, dead or alive. Your happy, healthy snake is right now 100% consistent with a chronic case of OPMV!

When a snake does die or get sick, there is/was a problem and all possibilities need to be considered. Yes, OPMV is a possibility, but so are many other things. If we jump to that conclusion every time a snake dies we're going to assume OPMV, and it will be assumed to be in just about every collection everywhere. We're also going to miss any other agents causing snakes to die.

 

[Freeloader]

The mass hysteria doesn't do anyone any good at all.

 

[Mayhem]

Where exactly is this thread going?
And what was the purpose to it being created & publicly exposed?

I don't agree that this matter should ever have been made public on a forum.

I agree. This thread is going nowhere and it was no one elses business to start with.

 

[Eylandt]

If we jump to that conclusion every time a snake dies we're going to assume OPMV, and it will be assumed to be in just about every collection everywhere. We're also going to miss any other agents causing snakes to die.

So the opinion made by the VET should have been ignored? Ahh.. Rightio.. Lesson to all our not so experienced herpers. In the event of illness take your Reptile to the VET, but ignore what they say if their report states anything that isnt 100% proven!


Are we all forgetting that the conclusion was made by DR DAVID VELLA BSc BVSc (Hons)
and not by the buyer?

 

[Kersten]

The other stimson i have from the same delivery is doing fine with no problems whatsoever. If one had OPMV then surely this one would have shown the same symptoms at the same time or close to. It just hasn't happened. I say this because they were in the same bag tied about 200mm apart. There blows the OPMV theory.

There's just one problem with this theory Frogboy. You're attempting to use logic to combat hysteria, it's far more fun to run in a circle screaming "won't someone think of the children" than it is to use the old grey cells.

Yes Eyelandt, it was supposedly the vet (we can still read that word even when it isn't capitalised) who said it. Supposedly being the operative word.

 

[Sdaji]

Where exactly is this thread going?
And what was the purpose to it being created & publicly exposed?

I don't agree that this matter should ever have been made public on a forum.

The reptile community being what it is, rumours are going to fly around quietly behind the scenes unless it is brought into the public, openly. If the actual people involved post publicly, it (mostly) stops the rumour mill from changing the story. This is why the accused parties would want it public after the rumours have started.

The other side would (rightly or wrongly) want it public so that people could be warned not to purchase anything. If it actually was OPMV, this would be a good thing.

Either way, making it public and open is better than everyone finding out by rumour.

 

[Freeloader]

I am not posting on this thread anymore just frustrates me too much. Off to play golf.