OPMV defamation

[PilbaraPythons]

I can tell you for a fact that if it is proven that Luke has OPMV that his entire collection will be euthanased and all cages destroyed.
Even if a vet report says OPMV, that conclusion will be in itself investigated by cross examination of the vet and nothing will be simply taken as face value. Secondly if in the remote case that Luke did have it and it was 100% proven then there will be full disclosure.
I highly doubt that any tissue was sent to the USA for testing ,as apparently the autopsy only cost $140.

Considering there were absolutely no symptoms in the reptile that died, I am suspecting another cause of death e.g. previous exposure to excess temperature.

 

[Sdaji]

Snakes subjected to temperature extremes can certainly show signs which are extremely similar to typical pathogen symptoms. In some cases these snakes can die in the short term, or in some cases they can live many years, in which case the symptoms may remain, or they can partially or entirely vanish. Poisons can have the exact same affect.

I certainly wouldn't take any risks or assume that everything is fine. This sort of thing needs to be taken very seriously, even if there is only a small chance that there is a nasty pathogen at work, but the most likely explanation is that the animal was exposed to a temperature extreme in transit. It seems highly unlikely that a snake would suddenly drop dead after 12 hours due to a previously symptom-free chronic infection, and more likely than that coincidence is the exposure to a temperature extreme.

Naturally we need to stay vigilant, but one snake dying after being transported does not necessarily mean OPMV. The more likely explanation is temperature, and we're not doing ourselves any favours if we condemn a collection as being filled with OPMV every time something like this happens, or we're going to assume deadly viruses are literally everywhere, which means people will become complacent when a real concern pops up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I know this case to be clear, but there's not enough reason to point fingers just yet. It sounds like this necropsy is being done exhaustively, so the results will be interesting. I look forward to the results.

 

[Sdaji]

I can tell you for a fact that if it is proven that Luke has OPMV that his entire collection will be euthanased and all cages destroyed.
Even if a vet report says OPMV, that conclusion will be in itself investigated by cross examination of the vet and nothing will be simply taken as face value. Secondly if in the remote case that Luke did have it and it was 100% proven then there will be full disclosure.
I highly doubt that any tissue was sent to the USA for testing ,as apparently the autopsy only cost $140.

Considering there were absolutely no symptoms in the reptile that died, I am suspecting another cause of death e.g. previous exposure to excess temperature.

Heh, you posted what I thought while I was typing it If the autopsy was only $140, I agree, nothing would have been sent overseas.

 

[pythons73]

Well if it was me in Question i would certaintly spend the $140 to prove or disapprove this case,its a hell of alot cheaper than euthanasing the collection from a vets report.As others have suggested it cant be 100% proven in Australia.Lets hope for iceman and others that this is a false alarm.

 

[Retic]

The $140 is just for a standard post mortem which will not determine if OPMV was the cause of death, the overseas tests would be considerably more expensive and are rarely if ever done.

 

[BenReyn]

This is the first of the issue I've heard baout.
Seems like someone's just spreading rumours pointlessly..
Damn shame!
Ben.

 

[Sdaji]

This is the first of the issue I've heard baout.
Seems like someone's just spreading rumours pointlessly..
Damn shame!
Ben.

I don't think he is 'pointlessly spreading rumours', at least not deliberately. I've heard the rumours from multiple sources, and I gather that the person bought a snake, it died within hours, he was (understandably) terrified that it was a serious disease. He went to the vet for a diagnosis, and as most vets (including most of the highly-regarded ones) are so prone to doing, an overconfident diagnosis was given, further scaring the keeper. He told a friend or two about it, then the rumour spread like mad, as rumours do in reptile circles. Quite likely what we're hearing is not what was said by the source, it's what the rumour mill has produced. No one seems to have heard from the keeper himself, so it's unlikely he actually wanted the rumours to be flying around as they are.

If a vet told someone that his snake had OPMV, you can't blame him for telling someone what happened. If I was naive enough to take a vet seriously and a vet told me I had a snake with OPMV, or if I suspected I had OPMV for any reason, I'd be telling people too. The main problem here (assuming it is not a case of OPMV) was the vet giving out an overconfident, almost baseless diagnosis, something which happens extremely often.

I think the person who bought the snake, went to the vet and got the diagnosis needs to speak up and set the story straight before the rumour mill creates its own version of the story. It might not have been their intention to start the rumours, but now that the rumours are out it's important to everyone, particularly the person who the snake came from, to let us know what is happening.

 

[lemonz]

what is opmv?

 

[Retic]

Google it.

 

[spilota_variegata]

So when a vet report is made public for the Pilbara Pythons syndicate and the rest of the forum to see(assuming it is), and if it shows that the case is 100% positivly consistent with OPMV ... what action will Luke be taking to rectify the problem? Will he be euthanasing the whole of his collection? Just curious to see how serious he is about the issue at hand and what actions he is willing to take to help protect the hobby.

This is all assuming the vet report shows a 100% confirmation of the disease.

It's highly unlikely that a 100% confirmation will ever be made. The cost is cost prohibitive to average person and I think has probably only been conducted for zoos/reptile parks (only one springs to mind).

Having said this, it would probably be a good idea for the person in question to cease selling snakes until this problem is resolved. I see he currently has BHPs, Stimsons and Jungles for sale.

Refunding the money for the snakes initially purchased is a good start and a very professional thing to do.

What happens if the worst case scenario is the case and OPMV is found to be the cause of death (highly unlikely)? Would the seller of the snake be responsible for the cost of euthanising all of the purchasers animals - or the euthanising of all the collections of people he has sold to?

One thing I do find disturbing about this thread is that it is based on a PM sent to someone privately. Isn't a PM a personal message? Maybe a confidentiality clause should be attached to all PMs stating the information contained therein is for the recipients eyes only and cannot be shared without the consent of the authour.

Good luck to all concerned.

 

[tenacres1100]

I don't think he is 'pointlessly spreading rumours', at least not deliberately. I've heard the rumours from multiple sources, and I gather that the person bought a snake, it died within hours, he was (understandably) terrified that it was a serious disease. He went to the vet for a diagnosis, and as most vets (including most of the highly-regarded ones) are so prone to doing, an overconfident diagnosis was given, further scaring the keeper. He told a friend or two about it, then the rumour spread like mad, as rumours do in reptile circles. Quite likely what we're hearing is not what was said by the source, it's what the rumour mill has produced. No one seems to have heard from the keeper himself, so it's unlikely he actually wanted the rumours to be flying around as they are.

If a vet told someone that his snake had OPMV, you can't blame him for telling someone what happened. If I was naive enough to take a vet seriously and a vet told me I had a snake with OPMV, or if I suspected I had OPMV for any reason, I'd be telling people too. The main problem here (assuming it is not a case of OPMV) was the vet giving out an overconfident, almost baseless diagnosis, something which happens extremely often.

I think the person who bought the snake, went to the vet and got the diagnosis needs to speak up and set the story straight before the rumour mill creates its own version of the story. It might not have been their intention to start the rumours, but now that the rumours are out it's important to everyone, particularly the person who the snake came from, to let us know what is happening.

I have to agree completly with Sdaji on this, if the same thing happened to me and my vet gave me a report that a python I just purchased died of OPMV, what else would I think, I'd be freaking out! And if someone had asked me how my new purchase was, and I had this info I would tell them. If anyone should be blamed for anything here, it's the vet, unless they know 100% for sure they shouldn't be giving out any reports stating for fact that a python died of OPMV.

 

[CodeRed]

People should just pull their heads in and not comment without knowing the facts. Most of you have no idea of the circumstances involved in this. The vet's report is based on post mortem pathology results not some circumstancial diagnosis. The **** is going to hit the perverbial fan if it hasnt already.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Some of you guys are giving this kid too much credit.
For one he was asked to keep this confidential until Luke had spoken to the vet himself ,or seen this alleged documentation, This kid did not.
Keep this clear, if in the unlikely event that Luke did have OPMV there will be no reason to keep anything quiet.
At this stage it seems however that Luke has been tried, convicted and hung without ever seeing, reading or talking to anyone by an inexperienced 17 year old and his juvenile mates.
Yeah, that sounds like a fair process.

 

[redbellybite]

It seems to go without question these days, all brown snakes are Taipans, and any dead pythons have OPMV....

or 'KING BROWNS' and yes I am surprised of how many speculate about OPMV when they either have a sick snake or a dead one ...and yet they seem never to actually put up the confirmation from the vet ....not a nice thing to slander someone with if you are not 100% sure that it was actually that

 

[No-two]

Some of you guys are giving this kid too much credit.
For one he was asked to keep this confidential until Luke had spoken to the vet himself ,or seen this alleged documentation, This kid did not.
Keep this clear, if in the unlikely event that Luke did have OPMV there will be no reason to keep anything quiet.
At this stage it seems however that Luke has been tried, convicted and hung without ever seeing, reading or talking to anyone by an inexperienced 17 year old and his juvenile mates.
Yeah, that sounds like a fair process.

I don't find it fair at all that you're taking a dig at his age.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Take it how you will No-two, I have stated that he inexperienced and 17, both I believe are simple facts.

 

[CodeRed]

Take it how you will No-two, I have stated that he inexperienced and 17, both I believe are simple facts.

How does inexperience make him wrong. One snake died within the first day, another has a permanent kink in its neck (oh I see how you glossed over that fact), and the last one had retained eye scales. The last two were seriously dehydrated. Thats pathetic that animals were shipped, let alone sold to a kid, in that condition.

Also a vet did the diagnosis not some 17 yr old kid. So now, David Vella, the vet who performed the autopsy is also inexperienced?

 

[kupper]

at 17 im sure the person has gone to vetrinary school and has 10 years experience in diagnosing reptile pathogens and diseases ,

money was refunded and i am sure replacements where also offered , in any transactions book that is problems solved and failry delt with no questions asked

I would be naming and shaming the buyer and not luke , when you have, keep and work with animals they are unpredictable in there natures and a simple slip up will either spell disaster or work out to be the best thing you have done
this is the hobby we choose to be in and it goes with the territory the buyer needs to grow up pull there head in and realise that they are 17 probably kept reptiles for a year or two and slandering someone at last look was illegal and a sueable offence

 

[No-two]

at 17 im sure the person has gone to vetrinary school and has 10 years experience in diagnosing reptile pathogens and diseases ,

money was refunded and i am sure replacements where also offered , in any transactions book that is problems solved and failry delt with no questions asked

I would be naming and shaming the buyer and not luke , when you have, keep and work with animals they are unpredictable in there natures and a simple slip up will either spell disaster or work out to be the best thing you have done
this is the hobby we choose to be in and it goes with the territory the buyer needs to grow up pull there head in and realise that they are 17 probably kept reptiles for a year or two and slandering someone at last look was illegal and a sueable offence

Gosh the age thing never gets old with people on aps. Pretty ridiculous really. 17 or not I'm pretty sure he'd be able to tell the difference between a water python and an olive python.

 

[bk201]

besides the first post the thread is pointless unless the seller and the kid posts and shows the vet report. anything else is just people trying to get in on having a go at someone.