Bloody Dogs!

[PhilK]

We rent on a 2.5 acre property out near Gatton and have been keeping a sheep for slaughter at the end of July. As it's the uni holidays me and my house mates asked the neighbour to check its water until we can get back after work/prac in Brisbane. I got a call today saying two Alsatians had got into the sheep's paddock last night and given it a right mashing (neighbour had seen it).. none of my friends were out at Gatton to look for me so after a LOT of calling around I managed to get a bloke to go and see it and he called me and put me on the phone to the RSPCA inspector.. he said it was torn up bad on the back legs with tendons showing and its face was all ripped up.

I was thinking I would be in trouble for some reason but the inspector was really cool about it, saying our fences were great etc and it was bad luck. Anyway he shot the sheep for us and disposed of the body but I am livid someone would let their dogs do that... I don't have my gun licence yet but my friend does. If it is legal I am thinking of having him camp out in our paddock with a predator call or doing sheep noises with a .22 and dispose of the filthy mongrels if they come back.

Anybody know the legalities here? Land owners are OK with it but does it need to be a certain size to be shot on? What if the dogs are owned by someone - still fair game if they're in our paddock?

I know everyone on here hates cats but I am furious that people allow their dogs to roam around doing this.. it's just as bad and if I saw them that night I would have torn them limb from limb if I could catch them :evil:

 

[Helikaon]

Crap luck man but yeah im not far from you and i have the same issues. have had the majority of my poultry taken geese ducks and chickens and the likes. one bugger dug under the fence adn got into the coop. hard to say whether its foxes or dogs though. and sorry couldnt tell you the legalities but i have seen packs of up to about 7 dogs running though the turf farm down the rd. and the owner has had calves taken down numerous times. not the best area for feral dogs, but im a bit further out so unfortunatley the ones that attacked your sheep would most probably be someones pets.

 

[dangles]

philk you heard a noise in the paddock went out to investigate thinking it was foxes, so had your gun ready. Turns out there was an alsation which when startled by you became aggressive towards you and you had no option but to defend yourself by shooting the dog. I have relo's at bathurst that have done this and never got into any trouble

 

[Tsubakai]

I'd shoot em and bugger the legalities.

 

[ellie]

after a bit of reading and personal experience on a deer farm if the dog/animal is on your property and is a direct threat to any livestock you have there you have every right to shoot, however i would not suggest luring then dog back as it may seem like you' trapped' the dog in an unfair way and also from what i gather that was your only sheep so you have no livestock that they can’t be of threat to. I know it is a horrible position to be in and we lost deer to many predators but just be careful in the matter in which you deal with the issue.

 

[Kitah]

Just as a note- as a vet student, I would certainly hope you realise it is not the dogs fault. "Tearing them limb from limb?" Yeah sure, you're mad that it happened, and that was probably a figure of speech (I surely hope so), but really? If it were me, I'd be looking for the owners and hold them responsible, or trap the dogs- if the owner claims them, deal with them then, but if not, they're no longer you're problem and won't cause issues elsewhere. A snake will strike and kill a rodent, an eagle may take down a hare etc- for a dog or cat its the same thing- prey drive. Its the owners responsibility to prevent their animals from leaving the property, killing wildlife and other peoples animals, so try to find the owner. The RSPCA knows what happened so you should have some support there.

Notice how people are always keen to kill the animal 'responsible' when in reality it is not the animals fault. If you get rid of these dogs, chances are the owners will get more and you'll have the same problem over again. If they were feral dogs, its still not their fault (Its nature), but yes, control them and you're more likely to reduce the problem. If you get rid of these dogs, chances are the owners will get more and you'll have the same problem over again- so you'd be best to at least attempt to deal with the source of the problem.

I'm probably not going to be posting on this thread again, because I can predict what your responses will be

 

[dragonscrawling]

There are bigger dogs then alsations that could control the problem for you if you are looking for a deterrent. Something like what Tsubakai has in his avatar above would do nicely.

 

[euphorion]

Just as a note- as a vet student, I would certainly hope you realise it is not the dogs fault. "Tearing them limb from limb?" Yeah sure, you're mad that it happened, and that was probably a figure of speech (I surely hope so), but really? If it were me, I'd be looking for the owners and hold them responsible, or trap the dogs- if the owner claims them, deal with them then, but if not, they're no longer you're problem and won't cause issues elsewhere. A snake will strike and kill a rodent, an eagle may take down a hare etc- for a dog or cat its the same thing- prey drive. Its the owners responsibility to prevent their animals from leaving the property, killing wildlife and other peoples animals, so try to find the owner. The RSPCA knows what happened so you should have some support there.

Notice how people are always keen to kill the animal 'responsible' when in reality it is not the animals fault. If you get rid of these dogs, chances are the owners will get more and you'll have the same problem over again. If they were feral dogs, its still not their fault (Its nature), but yes, control them and you're more likely to reduce the problem. If you get rid of these dogs, chances are the owners will get more and you'll have the same problem over again- so you'd be best to at least attempt to deal with the source of the problem.

I'm probably not going to be posting on this thread again, because I can predict what your responses will be

i have to agree with you here, even though im only a vet nurse student i know enough about animal behaviour to know its not entirely the animals' fault. if im not mistaken philk is a vet student also, and should IMO know better. call the council on the mutts if you must after trapping them, but wanting to harm them should be beyond your nature.

 

[shellfisch]

There are no such thing as bad dogs.....only bad owners. In my opinion

 

[Kenshin]

philk you heard a noise in the paddock went out to investigate thinking it was foxes, so had your gun ready. Turns out there was an alsation which when startled by you became aggressive towards you and you had no option but to defend yourself by shooting the dog. I have relo's at bathurst that have done this and never got into any trouble

firstly the owners are sht people for letting theyre dogs out to do this, secondly dangles the old "quick its comming right for us" from southpark so funny
if i had stock that was being mauled on my "secure" property i would condone shooting the animals that do it if not native

if a wedge tailed eagle took a sheep well then tough tittys live with it and get some footage for me but feral dogs/cats/foxes is fair game regardless of theyre natural instincts to rip into large animals and the fact is it is the owners fault but at the end of the day they are not native they are costing phil money and phils fences have been deemed fine so whats left to do..... shoot them

 

[Kenshin]

i have to agree with you here, even though im only a vet nurse student i know enough about animal behaviour to know its not entirely the animals' fault. if im not mistaken philk is a vet student also, and should IMO know better. call the council on the mutts if you must after trapping them, but wanting to harm them should be beyond your nature.

a fair call shooshoo however which is more humane a bullet which will end the dogs resposible in an instant or the stress of being trapped, taken to a pound for weeks or even months and then pumped full of green dream when the irrisponsable owners dont turn up because they havent registered these dogs and dont know or even dont care about theyre whereabouts

from what i see phil has a passion for "native" animals this dictates his drive to erradicate ferals which in my opinion is a good thing because it can only ever help the natives out a vet id use for sure

 

[PhilK]

I found out it's illegal to discharge a fire arm on a property less than 40 acres in QLD so no deal.

As for Kitah and shoshoo saying I am a vet student and should know better.. I never said it was the dogs fault. It's 110% stupid owners fault - the same as it's not the cats fault they eat wildlife but the owners. I know it isn't the dogs fault but that doesn't mean if I found it on my property again trying to get into the chook pen, say, I wouldn't destroy it if I had the means - I definitely would. I have no qualms with doing that at all if it is legal.

I will call my local council and tell them what happened, hopefully the dogs are registered for nearby and they can chat to the owners - I won't get compensated though because I can't prove the dogs did it but would be good for the owners to be told to keep their dogs shut up.

Still, if it was legal and I had the means I would not hesitate shooting them if they came back onto my property (I do have chooks to look after, one neighbour has a miniature horse and the other one door down has 4 sheep, so it is still deemed as protecting stock)

 

[smeejason]

Being a semi rural area the owners would know that their dogs would be shot on site if they attack stock or entered someone elses place.
Unforetunately you can say it is not the dogs fault but once a stock killer always a stock killer and there is only one treatment for it..

 

[JAS101]

I found out it's illegal to discharge a fire arm on a property less than 40 acres in QLD so no deal.

As for Kitah and shoshoo saying I am a vet student and should know better.. I never said it was the dogs fault. It's 110% stupid owners fault - the same as it's not the cats fault they eat wildlife but the owners. I know it isn't the dogs fault but that doesn't mean if I found it on my property again trying to get into the chook pen, say, I wouldn't destroy it if I had the means - I definitely would. I have no qualms with doing that at all if it is legal.

I will call my local council and tell them what happened, hopefully the dogs are registered for nearby and they can chat to the owners - I won't get compensated though because I can't prove the dogs did it but would be good for the owners to be told to keep their dogs shut up.

Still, if it was legal and I had the means I would not hesitate shooting them if they came back onto my property (I do have chooks to look after, one neighbour has a miniature horse and the other one door down has 4 sheep, so it is still deemed as protecting stock)

legal or not i know what id be doing

 

[redbellybite]

Being a semi rural area the owners would know that their dogs would be shot on site if they attack stock or entered someone elses place.
Unforetunately you can say it is not the dogs fault but once a stock killer always a stock killer and there is only one treatment for it..

TOTALLY CORRECT .......believe me these dogs will keep on doing it now that they have the taste for it ..and I know plenty of morons that think to let their dogs off during the night so as to 'protect' their property only problem is their mutts are causing havoc else where ...get a dog trap from the local council then its up to the owners to get the dogs back from the council ..

 

[waruikazi]

Is a roaming aggressive dog's life more important than the countless stock animals it kills?

Just as a note- as a vet student, I would certainly hope you realise it is not the dogs fault. "Tearing them limb from limb?" Yeah sure, you're mad that it happened, and that was probably a figure of speech (I surely hope so), but really? If it were me, I'd be looking for the owners and hold them responsible, or trap the dogs- if the owner claims them, deal with them then, but if not, they're no longer you're problem and won't cause issues elsewhere. A snake will strike and kill a rodent, an eagle may take down a hare etc- for a dog or cat its the same thing- prey drive. Its the owners responsibility to prevent their animals from leaving the property, killing wildlife and other peoples animals, so try to find the owner. The RSPCA knows what happened so you should have some support there.

Notice how people are always keen to kill the animal 'responsible' when in reality it is not the animals fault. If you get rid of these dogs, chances are the owners will get more and you'll have the same problem over again. If they were feral dogs, its still not their fault (Its nature), but yes, control them and you're more likely to reduce the problem. If you get rid of these dogs, chances are the owners will get more and you'll have the same problem over again- so you'd be best to at least attempt to deal with the source of the problem.

I'm probably not going to be posting on this thread again, because I can predict what your responses will be

 

[Kitah]

I never said that I know the problem needs to be dealt with, but from the way the original post was worded, and based on the replies, it seemed as though you were all blaming the dogs (which, they did attack the sheep, but they don't know any better, its just their natural prey drive), when in reality it was the owners fault for letting the dogs wander. I'd be concerned that if you did kill these dogs, that the owners would simply get more and you'd get the problem repeating again (which, for the new dogs, it again wouldn't be fair on them as they don't know any better). It may not necessarily happen, but it is possible. As I mentioned in my original reply, if you knew they were feral/wild dogs- by all means shoot them, and you may reduce the problem for the future; the dogs aren't native so get rid of them. Its just owners that cause future problems!

I'm not trying to start an argument, I know an animal that kills (e.g. these dogs) need to be dealt with, but I just think you need to try to control the source of the problem (which I know could be difficult, but may help).

And Phil- I do apologize if I misinterpreted your original post, it just seemed to me as though you were blaming the dogs (e.g. 'tearing limb from limb'). I know it was probably a heated moment when you typed it, but you never can tell on a forum or the internet.

It all comes down to the owners. Is it really that difficult to be a responsible pet owner?

And sorry to hear about the sheep.

 

[Selenotypus]

An animal is an animal...I have a bull arab a real family dog... if he managed to somehow get out and was shot, I would feel like i lost my best friend. I think the willingness to take life is wrong, especially when you have other options.

People are smarter than animals. We know what is right and what is wrong.

You're sheep was being kept for a meal, if these dogs are someones and they got out and it was an honest mistake and you took both the lifes of the dogs over you're meal... how would you feel about shooting their pets?

better put if you had a dog that did this would you rather someone call you about them, trap them or shoot them?

 

[euphorion]

Selenotypus - agreed.

if i were in Phil's situation i would certainly want the offending animals removed from the area or be certain that they were contained somewhere. given the circumstances it is quite likely that the owner is simply not as responsible as they could be, and now that the pooches have a taste for it not much can be done to stop them in future. IMO they should be destroyed, a nice big dose of lethabarb and no more wild days for them, shame thats that what it has to come down to.

in a semi-related note, i was at the dog park the other day when some moron rocks up with a .... wait for it... 'american staffy' AKA thats a pit bull or im an octopus. dog was feral and tried to start fights with other dogs through the fence. at least the owner realised pretty quick that if he brought his dog inside with the others it was going to either kill another dog or be killed. idiots.

 

[ohhsweetness]

there is a minimum land capacity to shoot a gun on a property i forgot what it was though