Tribal Carpets

[PilbaraPythons]

I look at JAGS as a typical blonde with a nice ra*k... Even if they arent too smart, they look friken amazing. So... I will go for them

And Wow im excited to find out if this new trait is genetic... very very cool!!!

If you want to use the jag attraction as an analogy to good looking woman with nice racks you might want to add that when you bend her over her head starts twitching. As a self confessed purist using the same analogy, I appreciate a good looking Thai chick, dream about some of the beautiful Russian glamour’s, and would appreciate the convenient height of a pygmy woman. Woman with neurological issues and Hedland Melanistic specimens, I give a wide berth.

 

[AndrewHenderson]

If you want to use the jag attraction as an analogy to good looking woman with nice racks you might want to add that when you bend her over her head starts twitching. As a self confessed purist using the same analogy, I appreciate a good looking Thai chick, dream about some of the beautiful Russian glamour’s, and would appreciate the convenient height of a pygmy woman. Woman with neurological issues and Hedland Melanistic specimens, I give a wide berth.

Haha, GOLD!

 

[zeke]

I don't like the look of them at all I'd rather stick to the more standard looking snakes as I do not like and would (probly never get a jag or crossbreed snake at all. But that's my opinion as I am interested in the more classic look of my favorite reps

 

[Herpaderpa]

If you want to use the jag attraction as an analogy to good looking woman with nice racks you might want to add that when you bend her over her head starts twitching. As a self confessed purist using the same analogy, I appreciate a good looking Thai chick, dream about some of the beautiful Russian glamour’s, and would appreciate the convenient height of a pygmy woman. Woman with neurological issues and Hedland Melanistic specimens, I give a wide berth.

Exactly my thoughts ROFL I just wasn't able to put it so eloquently

 

[Darlyn]

Well d3p you can certainly pull a crowd!
Were these bred in the NT?

Can't tell you why I'm asking that : )

 

[Waterrat]

Hate to break it to you but the VAST majority of "pure" lines all came from one source... the bush, and not necessarily with permits. Many of these purists know damn well their animals came from or are direct decendants of illegally poached animals. Do yourselves a favour and get off the soapbox before you trip over your inflated egos and crack your little noggins.

Please, do yourself the same favour. Your soap box is getting taller and taller.
Where did all captive reptiles originated from? Including yours? What's the difference between legal and "not necessarily with permits"? They all came from wild populations and usually, if always without any harm to the wild population.


Oh, where are you 3Dpro? The silence is deafening. Watch those worms crawling out of the can.

 

[-Katana-]

It is possible that I am just incapable of "hearing it". When I re-read your response, all I saw was the herp world equivalent of "If you like jags, then Al-quaeda wins". It may be a regional thing, I don't know what an "old cobbler" is, perhaps that is where the flesh of your argument lies? If so, that's why I don't get it. If you could add some fact, or first hand experience to the debate, I may then be able to "hear it".

Sorry to flood the forums mods, I smell an infraction coming my way.

So how does this stack up with a position of cross breeding....say...vens. where the resultant off-spring has an unkown toxicology. If some one gets tagged by someones little Vens. science experiment the ramifications will be wider reaching than half a clutch with the head boobles.
How the **** does a ER unit treat such a bite?
Treat with on anti-ven?
Both?
Will both be far too toxic for the human system to bear?
Will they negate themselves?

Why for the love of god damned pete would ANYONE cross vens in this country when we have 10 of the top 20 MOST vens. snakes in the god damned world and have THE best record for survival rate from bites from those snakes?

Cross breeds would turn snake bite toxicology in this country on it's head.

 

[GeckoJosh]

So how does this stack up with a position of cross breeding....say...vens. where the resultant off-spring has an unkown toxicology. If some one gets tagged by someones little Vens. science experiment the ramifications will be wider reaching than half a clutch with the head boobles.
How the **** does a ER unit treat such a bite?
Treat with on anti-ven?
Both?
Will both be far too toxic for the human system to bear?
Will they negate themselves?

Why for the love of god damned pete would ANYONE cross vens in this country when we have 10 of the top 20 MOST vens. snakes in the god damned world and have THE best record for survival rate from bites from those snakes?

Cross breeds would turn snake bite toxicology in this country on it's head.

Who is cross breeding vens? I thought we were talking about Morelia lol

 

[-Katana-]

Who is cross breeding vens? I thought we were talking about Morelia lol

Well people are going up in arms about cross breed pythons and their effects.
It pays to throw out a little perspective as to what might happen when bright sparks decide to rub two different vens. together.
As I said, the consequences may be more than a few booble headed pythons but such crosses of vens.may actually mean loss of human life because of an unknown and therefore an untreatable envenomation.

 

[jinjajoe]

All of this opinion....... I personally think & have said before that any of us gave up the right to opinion once we put animals in a box........ which is most if not all of us....... enjoy the growth of the hobby or be quiet. This thread is purely indicative of some interesting animals...... nothing more.

 

[Renenet]

At this early stage they look like iced donuts that went wrong. If they colour up like albino darwins do, I might find them more attractive. Still, I don't think they'll be for me. I've yet to see a morph available in Australia that gets me excited. I'm afraid I'm attracted to the natural-looking snakes.

Nonetheless, if they're Jag/neuro free, all good luck to your friend, D3pro. If it is genetic, I'll be keen to see how the project develops over the years.

 

[Darlyn]

All of this opinion....... I personally think & have said before that any of us gave up the right to opinion once we put animals in a box.........

Interesting opinion. Totally disagree, but then in your opinion your'e not entitled to one.

 

[jinjajoe]

Interesting opinion. Totally disagree, but then in your opinion your'e not entitled to one.

spot on smartie....

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

Please, do yourself the same favour. Your soap box is getting taller and taller.
Where did all captive reptiles originated from? Including yours? What's the difference between legal and "not necessarily with permits"? They all came from wild populations and usually, if always without any harm to the wild population.


Oh, where are you 3Dpro? The silence is deafening. Watch those worms crawling out of the can.

Michael, you are the LAST person that should EVER preach about soapboxes, that's rich! Talk about the pot and the friggin kettle! :lol::lol::lol: The funniest part is you've argued my point exactly, thank you and well done. As it was I who pointed out where the bulk of captive reptiles in this country have come from, it should be flagrantly obvious that I am completely indifferent to the origins of the "pure" animals in my collection. This is not advocating poaching, merely a clear indication that hypocrisy is not something I cannot be bothered with. They were available legally, so I purchased them (for big bucks, from reputable, purist breeders!).

This debate is tiresome so I will bow out with a quote from...ughhh...myself, from the "Why do so many people have a hatred towards JAGS???" thread:

IMO, the main reason is that some "snake people" think that by keeping lines pure, that it in some way instills them with nobility, or somehow makes them special. I think the main reason some folks hate them SOOO much, is that their illegally poached (or directly decended from), locality specific animals are no longer the centre of attention.

As Andrew pointed out in post #129, :"down the road when some poor sap shells out big bucks for what they think it a pure line of reptile with no mix breeding in it and they get a mongrel mix." That says it all. Purists are no longer "special", nor are they able to "get the big bucks" from their locality specific animals. God, who bloody cares! Someone argued that jag keepers and non-purists don't argue these points, it's because we don't care! I, and many others feel that there is equal room for purity as well as morph breeding. Bit hard to stand up and make that point when the beligerent loud mouths are flinging faeces everywhere. No-one seems to be complaining about the reduced vigour found in albino darwins, and don't get me started on reproductive inferiority of albino olives! They're pure, I guess that's what matters (for some reason that no-one can seem to explain other than personal preference).

Deep breath.....rant over.

 

[Darlyn]

. No-one seems to be complaining about the reduced vigour found in albino darwins, and don't get me started on reproductive inferiority of albino olives! They're pure, I guess that's what matters (for some reason that no-one can seem to explain other than personal preference).

Deep breath.....rant over.

Actually I would like to get you started on these claims. Do you have evidence or are you exagerrating to prove a point?

 

[MrSpike]

"If you like jags, then Al-quaeda wins".

F*#&!^g LOL

I haven't seen a quote that sig worthy since.. ever.

At the end of the day, you purists can have fun keeping your poached animals, while us dirty hybridizers can have fun with our smuggled stock. If any of us have any morals at all though, we won't be lying about the heritage of the snakes we are producing.. And why should we? If we have one side of the market that is more than willing to produce and purchase hybrids then we can label and sell them as such, while the other side can do the same.

 

[longqi]

There will always be a market for designer snakes
Thats fair enough although not everyones cup of tea

As far a Jags go everyone knows my thoughts so I wont bother saying them again

But if this line is Jag free and does prove out the breeder is onto a huge winner

This thread shouldnt degenerate into Jag and Anti-Jag
It should be about the huge advances in breeding that are going on as we write

 

[snakes73]

If this is a new morph and not a gene linked to the jaguars the beauty it brings will come with a beast. One thing is to not jump onto that train too quick with big bucks until it has been proven out and you can always bet if money is involved the faults will be kept under ground. Just look how long it took the breeders in Europe and the US to be honest and come forward about the neuro issues in jags.

 

[longqi]

There is no reason to believe that a beast has to come with beauty
99% of python regius or ball python morphs have no neuro and I have never heard of any neuro problems with retics or burmese morphs

The Neuro problems with Jags didnt seem to appear until long after Jan Engels first bred them
First reports of neuro came about 2 years after Iryan Jayas were introduced into the Jag line by the Germans Dutch and Yanks

Jan has always stated that none of his original Jags ever showed neuro problems and so far I have never found any evidence to doubt this

 

[zack13]

Does anyone actually have a bloody clue why they are pro-pure? For the life of me I cannot see what the world ending problem is. For the love of Gawd, please enlighten us! The topic gives some of you people a frickin brain hemorrhage! I have yet to hear one sound, logical justification for keeping these animals "pure". Seriously, share with the group without sounding like a complete douche if you can. Is it conservation? Sorry, your pet snakes have exactly zero conservation value. Is it that you prefer "wild-type" animals? Get off yer arses and go look at them the way nature intended. These are captive bred animals destined for the pet trade, whether you like or not. All the beeyotching in the world is not going to change that fact. Many of you are arguing about the issue of legality, etc... Hate to break it to you but the VAST majority of "pure" lines all came from one source... the bush, and not necessarily with permits. Many of these purists know damn well their animals came from or are direct decendants of illegally poached animals. Do yourselves a favour and get off the soapbox before you trip over your inflated egos and crack your little noggins.

As far as this line goes, good on the breeder, the designer pet pythons he/she's created are blowing people's minds and that's a good thing! By adding morphs to the face of the reptile hobby, we are far more likely to draw fresh blood into the hobby, not to mention generate more POSITIVE awareness of reptiles and snakes in general.

Really, come on. I think there is room for both in the hobby but wow this post is ignorant and closed minded. There is plenty of logic in both arguments just because YOU don't agree with or can't see their logic doesn't make it illogical or wrong. Grow up and get off your horse. How about you share with the group without sounding like a complete douche if you can (I'd say that is a little too late) as to why would shouldn't keep animals pure.