A little warning for all DIY'ers

[andynic07]

Woohoo.. I guessed 200 or 300mm above. It's 200mm Also 200mm side clearance is says. So who has a 200mm square box and a heat resistant mount for their halogens? I'm guessing not many DIY's...

It would be interesting to see how some of the "professional" enclosure builders that use down lights in their builds stack up to the rules. Surely they can not sell a product that does not meet electrical safety regulations. I will not mention names because the thread will be deleted but we all know the main players involved in the latest enclosure debacle.

 

[Gruni]

Got lucky there, that why I use a fully fledged heat safe down light and not just a globe and fitting. DIY is one thing but it still needs care to make sure you don't cut corners.

I use something similar to this but as a 12v power supply...

 

[Snowman]

Got lucky there, that why I use a fully fledged heat safe down light and not just a globe and fitting. DIY is one thing but it still needs care to make sure you don't cut corners.

I use something similar to this but as a 12v power supply...

you will find that the regulations are the same.

 

[Wing_Nut]

There is a product called Timbersafe. Its a natural product designed to treat timber. It is used to protect against wood rot, fungii, wood borer, termites as well being a fire retardant. The fire retardant testing results were quite amazing. Perhaps a safe, economic way that could be utilised to prevent these kinds of things occurring.

Kind regards

Wing_Nut

 

[Red-Ink]

Woohoo.. I guessed 200 or 300mm above. It's 200mm Also 200mm side clearance is says. So who has a 200mm square box and a heat resistant mount for their halogens? I'm guessing not many DIY's...

Some of us figure out a way around it...

 

[Snowman]

Some of us figure out a way around it...

the one on the left is illegal because of the exposed terminals. The one on the right doesn't apply to the standards we have been talking about as its not a recessed fitting. It is metal though so still has to be earthed to the relevant standards with an earthing conductor of relevant size.
its a much better light fitting though and good to see its not a recessed down light

 

[Skitzmixer]

the one on the left is illegal because of the exposed terminals. The one on the right doesn't apply to the standards we have been talking about as its not a recessed fitting. It is metal though so still has to be earthed to the relevant standards with an earthing conductor of relevant size.
its a much better light fitting though and good to see its not a recessed down light

The one on the left, isn't that wired up the same as most other enclosures purchased at say pet shops etc.. ? I've seen plenty of them wired up like that. So is that actually illegal? If so, how are they still able to sell it? When im in a shop next time i'll take a photo and have a closer look, but im fairly sure the wire's are exposed.

 

[Snowman]

The one on the left, isn't that wired up the same as most other enclosures purchased at say pet shops etc.. ? I've seen plenty of them wired up like that. So is that actually illegal? If so, how are they still able to sell it? When im in a shop next time i'll take a photo and have a closer look, but im fairly sure the wire's are exposed.

Yep completely illegal. You can not have exposed terminals. It looks like this kind if fitting to me. (See bellow). Terminals can only be accessed by use of a tool. IE an enclosed box that you need a screw driver to access.
A lot of the light fittings sold are not to Australian standards. It's up to the elecrtical installer to ensure the fittings are installed to the Australian standards and not all fittings can be made to comply easily. I would refuse to install these types of fittings.

The only acceptable ES base has no exposed terminals. IE...

Typically the first fitting I showed are meant to go into a casing. (Though this isn't an es fitting its the same principle)

 

[Moreliavridis]

Not only is it dangerous, if your house catches fire your house insurance will be void.

 

[Skitzmixer]

Not only is it dangerous, if your house catches fire your house insurance will be void.

WoW that's crazy. I just assumed if they're able to sell it in a pet shop then it cant be illegal. Wonder why nobody's put a stop to this?

 

[Moreliavridis]

If its a pre wired light with a moulded plug light those exoterra lights and they can also sell the fittings. But you are responsible for getting it wired.
It's the same as bunnings they sell power cable but technically your not allowed to install it.

 

[Snowman]

It's what the DIY don't know about wiring that makes them confident. Electricians are licensed for a reason and most DIY by unlicensed people is not only illegal but dangerous. Most people have the best intentions. But it's their ignorance in a field that they are not specialized in that let's them down.
If you have a license to keep snakes, respect the need for a license to wire up enclosures.

 

[Skitzmixer]

If its a pre wired light with a moulded plug light those exoterra lights and they can also sell the fittings. But you are responsible for getting it wired.
It's the same as bunnings they sell power cable but technically your not allowed to install it.

Ah sorry, didn't explain myself well enough I was referring to the whole pack, the ones that are sold already pre-wired and installed into the enclosure, with the glass etc.. just add reptiles. Like below:

 

[Snowman]

I can't see the terminals. If they are exposed its illegal. What is also illegal about that viv above is the thermostat is 240v and is installed in a situation where it could get wet (via a python pooping on it). It's not made for such a situation as liquidcan easily enter via the top and should only be installed on a wall in an environment where it will never come into contact with liquids.

 

[Skitzmixer]

Well that picture was just copied from a sponsors website.. So how are they still able to sell it then?
Not trying to be defensive or argue, its just got me flustered as to how companies can sell something like that, and expect everyone to turn a blind eye to it.

 

[Ramsayi]

Thanks for the info Snow and OldestMagician.

Skitzmixer looking at that pic I can see a few potential issues.
The first being that there doesn't seem to be an heat protection on the ceiling directly above the fittings.The second is that it looks to have been wired with 2 or 3 core flex which after a while would result in the insulation becoming brittle along with the potential problems that would create.Lastly like Snow has already written the termination on the fitting you have circled doesn't seem to be covered.

Much better to have all wiring inside enclosures done with high temp rated wire,the type they use in ovens etc.Run that through to a junction box on the outside of the enclosure and connect it to normal flex from that point.Maybe those issues are not really issues at all with regard to standards but I would be surprised if they weren't.

 

[Skitzmixer]

Thanks for the info Snow and OldestMagician.

Skitzmixer looking at that pic I can see a few potential issues.
The first being that there doesn't seem to be an heat protection on the ceiling directly above the fittings.The second is that it looks to have been wired with 2 or 3 core flex which after a while would result in the insulation becoming brittle along with the potential problems that would create.Lastly like Snow has already written the termination on the fitting you have circled doesn't seem to be covered.

As I said in my above post, the picture was taken from a sponsors website, so how are they legally able to sell something that's not compliant and potentially illegal?

 

[andynic07]

As I said in my above post, the picture was taken from a sponsors website, so how are they legally able to sell something that's not compliant and potentially illegal?

I think that things like this slip through the cracks because it isn't really fixed wiring and it isn't really an appliance even though it can be plugged into a socket outlet and moved around. If you reported a manufacturer of one of these enclosures to the ESO (electrical safety office) I am sure some action would be taken. I am also sure that as a consumer with no electrical experience if you bought one of the said enclosures in good faith and it burnt your house down the insurance company would pay out but go after the manufacturer for compensation. Also if the worst happened and someone died the company would be in real trouble and someone would be facing jail time. I think liability wise you are somewhat protected because you have no training but that does not stop the heart ache of losing property or life.

 

[Skitzmixer]

ahhh ok, well that makes sense then. Just seemed strange that if its so bad to those who are electricians then how are they still on our shelves? I would of thought qualified electricians would of wired them up in the first place anyway..

 

[Snowman]

What not to DIY with plumbing and electrical