AMAZING Beardies? or crazy inbred freaks??

[user 16324]

Mutations that reduce the risk of an animal surviving in the wild get wiped out as they don't survive and therefore produce no offspring. In captivity though they survive because they have food brought to them and a safe housing environment. How would a scaleless fare in the cold/hot? wouldn't their requirements be different? And with dogs pure bred dogs which were bred for their characteristics have loads of problems e.g. Hip displacier, respiratory and nostril issues and the bull dog cant give natural birth. By doing this with dragons and other reptiles what possible conditions are we risking? Not saying anything against it but does anyone know the potential health threats? (Not saying there are health threats).

Thats a very interesting point. Is this what is common in some Jags? Dont some run the risk of having neurological problems?

 

[Fireflyshuffle]

Depends on the genetics they are breeding. I think the basic idea is to have a strong gene of breeders. You must wipe out neurological disorders before you plan on breeding or producing. Theres alot to it that's to much to explain on here. Not to forget..We may be behind..But US is also taking it as a learning curve. They don't get it perfect every time of course, and they still have a lot of work in the future. We will always be behind. But we should be taking there experience to our advantage here.

 

[Jay84]

Mutations that reduce the risk of an animal surviving in the wild get wiped out as they don't survive and therefore produce no offspring. In captivity though they survive because they have food brought to them and a safe housing environment. Is it of your opinion that they not be bred because they may not survive in the wild? The reasons most morphs/mutations do not survive in the wild is because they stand out and are easy pickings for predators. Not necessarily weaker individuals.How would a scaleless fare in the cold/hot? wouldn't their requirements be different? And with dogs pure bred dogs which were bred for their characteristics have loads of problems e.g. Hip displacier, respiratory and nostril issues and the bull dog cant give natural birth. By doing this with dragons and other reptiles what possible conditions are we risking? Dogs have been bred to change their physical shape and structure. A sausage dog for example, tiny legs and elongated spine, bulldogs and pugs, squashed noses and big heads. All the yanks have done with beardies is breed colour morphs. These would have been produced as oddballs in a clutch and then worked on to reproduce this colour trait. They have not been bred to have bigger heads, or shorter limbs etc etc.Not saying anything against it but does anyone know the potential health threats? (Not saying there are health threats).

Look at birds, there are thousands of colour mutations in birds. These are not genetically weaker than their normal counterparts. Look at the Indian Ringneck, they have so many mutations it would be hard to count. They dont seem to have problems breeding, feeding, flying etc etc. just because you have a mutation or a morph does not make it weak.

 

[waruikazi]

Look at birds, there are thousands of colour mutations in birds. These are not genetically weaker than their normal counterparts. Look at the Indian Ringneck, they have so many mutations it would be hard to count. They dont seem to have problems breeding, feeding, flying etc etc. just because you have a mutation or a morph does not make it weak.

I agree with you Jay that being a morph does not automatically make the animal weak but there is a high incidence of mutated animals being weaker.

I have a suspicion that most of these beardies will be a less robust animal than the wild type and i'll explain why. All Agamids need UV to synthesize VitD because they are insectivorous, for the most part. Most of the morphs pictured have a pigment defect and as we all know melanin is needed to absorb UV. Without an appropriate ammount of melanin they will need to get their vitD somewhere else.

I'm quite confident that this is why the aussie albino beardies and water dragon have not come onto the market yet.

 

[AllThingsReptile]

Mutations that reduce the risk of an animal surviving in the wild get wiped out as they don't survive and therefore produce no offspring. In captivity though they survive because they have food brought to them and a safe housing environment. How would a scaleless fare in the cold/hot? wouldn't their requirements be different? And with dogs pure bred dogs which were bred for their characteristics have loads of problems e.g. Hip displacier, respiratory and nostril issues and the bull dog cant give natural birth. By doing this with dragons and other reptiles what possible conditions are we risking? Not saying anything against it but does anyone know the potential health threats? (Not saying there are health threats).

is this a for, or against comment?, i think it raises an important point all the same, should we let our hobby get to that stage, just for some colourful beardies? no, im happy with the morphs we have at the moment thank you, dont get me wrong, i love some of those pics, its just what had to happen to get those morphs is my problem......dannyboi, also, are you trying to point out that mutations do happen in the wild? it just they all die, so we can breed morphs, because they do happen?, with that i actually agree, its not the morphs i dont like, its the treatment of the animal, to me thats what matters

 

[Braidotti]

I think the only one that might not be able to survive in the wild, would be the scaleless morphs.

 

[Namn8r]

These look fully photoshopped... they look so colour saturated!

 

[Dannyboi]

All the yanks have done with beardies is breed colour morphs. These would have been produced as oddballs in a clutch and then worked on to reproduce this colour trait. They have not been bred to have bigger heads, or shorter limbs etc etc.Not

I was talking about the scaleless part. I think that is possibly to far and personally disgusting.

 

[Eddie2257]

i dont like all these morphs that are comming up these days. i realy like just a plain beardie just how you find them in the bush.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I agree with you Jay that being a morph does not automatically make the animal weak but there is a high incidence of mutated animals being weaker.

I have a suspicion that most of these beardies will be a less robust animal than the wild type and i'll explain why. All Agamids need UV to synthesize VitD because they are insectivorous, for the most part. Most of the morphs pictured have a pigment defect and as we all know melanin is needed to absorb UV. Without an appropriate ammount of melanin they will need to get their vitD somewhere else.

I'm quite confident that this is why the aussie albino beardies and water dragon have not come onto the market yet.

Fortunately the Americans have been breeding beardies without UV light for quite a few years!

Repashy Superfoods

SUPERCAL HYD
MICRO-FINE CALCIUM SUPPLEMENT
*
Our Micro Fine Calcium Supplement with High Levels of Vitamin D.
For species with high Vitamin D requirements, receiving little UVB radiation from natural or artificial sunlight. Also for therapeutic use.
*
INFORMATION: Our Calcium Carbonate is mined from the Mohave Desert in California, where it was deposited 300 million years ago during the Mississippian Age as a large graveyard of marine animals. It was formed in very favorable conditions in a shallow marine environ-ment. These remains were cemented together with Cal-cium Carbonate precipitated out of the primordial sea. The deposit was then further purified and metamorphosed by various natural geologic processes including high pressure and temperature. This deposit is an extremely
pure source of natural Calcium Carbonate which makes it a truly unique source for food, supplement, and pharma-ceutical applications. It is FDA Food Grade Certified. Our calcium is micro ground to an average size of 3.5 microns, and is the finest available grind on the market, which provides the ultimate “stick” when dusted onto insects.
*
INGREDIENTS: Calcium Carbonate, Vitamins (Vitamin D Supplement).*
*
Guaranteed Analysis: Calcium min. 30%, Calcium max. 32%, Vitamin D-3 50,000 IU/lb.
*
DIRECTIONS: This product should be the product of choice for species with high Vitamin D requirements that are kept with little or no UVB radiation from natural sunlight or UVB specialty bulbs. This product can also be used for treating early symptoms of metabolic bone disease (MBD). For species with normal Vitamin D requirements, we recommend Repashy’s SuperCal MeD, and for sensitive species, we recommend the use of Repashy’s SuperCal LoD. Dust insects using the “shake and bake” method before feeding to animals. For supplementing fresh fruit and vegetables, use 1 heaping Teaspoon per Pound. It is recommended that Repashy’s SuperVIte vitamin supplement be used at a 1:1 ratio to this product to provide a balance of essential vitamins. For an “All-in -One” solution please try Repashy’s Calcium Plus.
*
MADE IN USA

 

[Jay84]

I just don't see breeding these beardies as any different to what we are doing here....

Super striped coastals and jungles.
Tiger Jungles
Hypo Beardies.
Leather back beardies.
Albino darwins, olives and spotteds.
Piebald Childreni.

How are any of the above different to what the yanks are doing with Beardies? Its just that they are so much further ahead of us!

I just don't see breeding these beardies as any different to what we are doing here....

Super striped coastals and jungles.
Tiger Jungles
Hypo Beardies.
Leather back beardies.
Albino darwins, olives and spotteds.
Piebald Childreni.

How are any of the above different to what the yanks are doing with Beardies? Its just that they are so much further ahead of us!

 

[Dannyboi]

They are breeding them to be translucent and without scales. Thats how its different. Breeding for colours and patterns is fine to a degree but reptiles like beardies evolved to have scales now they are breeding them out of it. Thats how its different.

 

[Jay84]

They are breeding them to be translucent and without scales. Thats how its different. Breeding for colours and patterns is fine to a degree but reptiles like beardies evolved to have scales now they are breeding them out of it. Thats how its different.

Well then you won't have an issue with translucents then as that is a colour morph? Scaleless...... well we have scaleless death adders here too. The yanks have scaleless corn snakes. None of them seem to show any ill effects.

There is a breeder on this site breeding translucent knobtailed geckos.

 

[Dannyboi]

And you wont see me buying the Scaleless death adders. Translucent has been shown in many species to have higher rates of cancer I am unaware if this is the same in Lizards as it is in frogs but the chance is always there.

 

[W.T.BUY]

The thing is, Jags popped up over night and so will these guys, thats if there not already here...

RSM Reduced scale morph anyone?

 

[damian83]

i love the Pied BD, the yanks have done it again !!!

they look freaky

i wonder if we took ours over on holidays and brought it back after breeding a female with coloured versions of theirs would it be legal offspring? it would be a costly excersise but would if be worth it

 

[user 16324]

i wonder if we took ours over on holidays and brought it back after breeding a female with coloured versions of theirs would it be legal offspring? it would be a costly excersise but would if be worth it

Well you cant take yours overseas for a 'holiday' in the first place. there goes ur masterful plan!

 

[impulse reptiles]

Well then you won't have an issue with translucents then as that is a colour morph? Scaleless...... well we have scaleless death adders here too. The yanks have scaleless corn snakes. None of them seem to show any ill effects.

There is a breeder on this site breeding translucent knobtailed geckos.

from what i hear , the scaless beardies and corns have very bad shedding problems.
do scaleless death adders have shedding problems aswell?

 

[Dannyboi]

there we go shedding problems I bet this is just the peak of the iceburg with scaleless issues.