Breeding program?

[Waterrat]

We often hear people talking about their "breeding programs" and I wonder if, especially those new to the hobby, know what it means and what it entails. Most Zoos prepare well structured and detailed breeding programs as such are often submitted to attract funding. That's not the case in the amateur circles, so what is a breeding program, what should it include and why to have one?
Having a pair of snakes that will / might breed next season - is that a breeding program or just a plan, or not even that?

 

[scorps]

I think it would all depend (on an amuture level) the breeders goals (obviously zoo's and commerciall breeders goals are profit), there understanding of breeding as well as there ability and comitment into building such a program.

I personally dont have set programs but do like to have everythign written down that I plan to do as well as records, when I plan to stop feeding, my tempreture and day/night cycle out lays for the year, when I plan to start moving males around and other smaller things.

If you dont mind would you mind sharing one of yours?

 

[Waterrat]

I think it would all depend (on an amuture level) the breeders goals (obviously zoo's and commerciall breeders goals are profit),
If you dont mind would you mind sharing one of yours?

Profit is not the driver of Zoo's breeding programs - conservation of threatened species is the main purpose. (we are not talking about Hartleys Creek lol)
I will post my 2c worth but later on, lets hear from others.

 

[scorps]

Im not saying conservation isnt the main aim, but how would zoo's benifit from breeding heaps of pythons from a conservation point of view?

Not having a dig just interested.

Ben

 

[Waterrat]

You are missing the point Ben, "breeding programs" are not about breeding heaps of pythons and selling them, in fact, it's sometimes the opposite.

 

[scorps]

I understand that, my last point was a little off topic of the thread and more directed at your previous point on conservation, as to not hijack the thread well cover it at a later date.

Any chance of basic idea of your breeding program's? (will totally understand if you would prefer to keep them private)

 

[hugsta]

For me, a breeding programme is not what common pairs of pythons I am putting together this season, it is more about breeding for specific traits and putting into action a long term breeding strategy/plan. For e.g., the patternless MD's that I have are part of a breeding programme. Putting her back to dad, proving genetics, and seeing what other possible traits may also lie underneath, it is a very long term project. It is not putting two jungles together just for producing numbers. In a nutshell anyway.

 

[Waterrat]

I don't have any secrets, my program is no different to many others but I was hoping for more of a conceptual approach, i.e. what it is and why breeders should or shouldn't have one. People so often refer to their BPs on this and other forums and I thought it would be good to hear from the wider herp community their ideas rather than me defining my BP.

 

[Ozzie Python]

i think it can be both a plan or program, depending on what is being achieved.

a plan is probably the best word to describe us hobby breeders. just pairing two regular old snakes like many of us do, be it anything from a pair of childrens, het darwins, or gtps is not exactly a program. we know the outcome will be regular, wild type looking offspring or roughly how many albinos, hets etc we might get.

breeding for a certain trait- reduced pattern, better stripes or similar using multiple breeding stock and selective pairings to achieve best results i think could be classed as a breeding program.

breeding something different that hasn't been done, or done with little success, could also be classed as a program imo.

just my 2 cents.

 

[scorps]

Well basically I aproach mine as more of a hole, then singular pairs, kind of like a business plan on a company would ( not saying there the same or I breed for money) but like a business plan you look at what you have, where you want to get to and the most efficient and easiest way there, as you would know owning a larger collection it can be quite time consuming and costly, so cutting down time and cost in some areas, as well as having an organised approach at where you would like to end up is all benificial,

For the people that read this wrong, this is nothign to do with making money, just used that as an example as its similiar if looked at from that perspective

Ben

 

[CamdeJong]

OzziePython covered my opinion entirely, although the terms 'plan' and 'program' don't quite define the big divider in reptile breeding, the intention of achieving a desirable trait compared to breeding two snakes just because you have them. Realistically a breeding plan, by definition of the word, is the breeding one intends to do, as compared to a program which is the breeding already underway.

 

[Waterrat]

Hypothetical: how would you structure a breeding program for the Oenpelli python if you were asked to submit one with the view of you becoming the lucky owner?

 

[MonitorMayhem]

this is very interesting my breeding programs if thats what they are i plan well in advance sometimes purchasing stock over a long period of time to go with what i have to try and get my desired results it could be colour/pattern etc just depends on what your working with.

 

[Moreliavridis]

Hypothetical: how would you structure a breeding program for the Oenpelli python if you were asked to submit one with the view of you becoming the lucky owner?

By setting up the enclosure as close to possible as its habitat and try and cycle weather patterns as close to possible with the weather patterns in the same region as the Oenpelli python Ie temperature drops and rain.
Try so successfully breed them (artificial incubation) gaining as much data as possible on the whole season, the pythons and weather patterns.
Keep all the hatchlings for atleast a year to gain more knowledge of the particular species then again use the same procedure once a mature age has been reach with hatchlings but this time one pair would maternally incubate eggs and another pair artificially so i could recored different hatching times and ratios.
Then the following year try and change some of the breeding cycle to see if the temperature has an effect on the breeding process.

 

[Waterrat]

Would you also consider parting with some of the stock into the care of another experienced keeper to ensure a survival of the line in case of a disaster? We know of cases where entire collections were wiped out due to disease, fire, theft, etc..

 

[Moreliavridis]

Yeah most defiantly after a year of holding back the first clutch i would part with atleast 2 pairs to enurse survival. But one condition of parting with stock would be to swap data of incubation times an temps etc..

 

[Renenet]

This is an interesting thread because I'm considering breeding in the distant future. It would be a hobby rather than a business, but I'd still want to produce nice pythons.

I'd be curious to hear how others organise things. A couple of questions come to mind at this late hour. How do you choose which snakes to pair off? How many people have more females than males? (Apologies if those questions don't come under the definition of breeding program.)

 

[bucket]

if you want i can look after afew of your great green tree pythons waterrat just in case something happens to your collection.
in other other words i'm a tight arss looking for a freebie, i'll win the lotto soon & give you a call.
i like the ones with yellow & the others with blue very nice

 

[Snakeluvver2]

I'd think it would be looking a lot at the natural environment, seeing if breeding techniques that are already in use work and if not finding something that does work by looking at their ecology.

 

[Klaery]

On the conservation front breeding programs are the last thing you want to have to do. Expensive, intensive and they very often fail. A last resort.
That is of coarse unless you are a zoo where you get a boost in people through the gate when you have baby animals around.