Diamond Syndrome

[serpenttongue]

Zulu, i agree that diamonds do go underground and also in deep crevices to cool off. The problem is how do you convince a diamond to use such retreats in captivity? My avairies have good hollow logs and insulated boxes on the ground where its quite cool. On hot days several diamonds will use these hides but there are others that wont. Instead they choose to remain up high where its warmer, but thats their choice. I'm in the middle of putting all my high hides down onto the ground so the diamonds have to cool off if they want to use these hides. Some do but others choose to remain on high branches near the hot colorbond roofing, thats a decision they have made themselves. They know that they can come down to the ground to cool off but have decided not to and i cant really force them to use the cooler hides. By 1pm the cages only have i little sunlight, the rest being shade and at this time the avairies start cooling down themselves anyway. So anyway, if not being able to cool properly is a contributing factor with DPS in captive diamonds then surely the diamonds are doing it to themselves???? Whats your thoughts???

 

[bigguy]

Zulu, as I said its a combination. If kept outside in UV, but no thermal gradient, yes you can get DPS. If kept cool inside without UV, yes you can get DPS. If continually overfed they can get DPS(however thinking on this cause it may be linked more to the continual temps needed for digesting).
There was an article in the US Reptiles mag on Diamond keeping. The keeper cooled off his Diamonds in foam boxes through Winter in his garage. Worked well for a few years, then I heard he lost the lot. Again no UV.
A hide box sunk into the ground with a acsess panel at ground level for the keeper, and a entry made from a plastic water pipe attached to the side of the box and up to the surface at say a 45 degree angle would be great. This would simulate a underground den that they commonly use in the bush.
Serpentongue, they may not choose to use the cooler boxes on hot days, but at least you have given them a choice if they want too. Mine nearly always choice the cooler hides during the heat. Maybe yours do not like the setup you supplied for them. Perhaps you could try something different.

 

[zulu]

re Diamond

Seems that allot of people may have concrete slabs on the bottom of these aviaries as the talk seems to be about putting boxs on the ground,i dont know,doesnt deem right that they wouldnt go underground in the heat of day.Another attraction to the holes in the ground maybe the fact that it contains some moisture which could possibly hydrate the skin in warm weather also as the clay banks are close to water but that is just speculation.If my blotchies want to bury themselves in the ground to escape the heat they do i dont have a concrete floor with a box because tey would just go downhill and die even if they was hybrids :lol:

 

[peterjohnson64]

Hey Zulu, here is a litle solution I thought of with regards to concrete slabs. Need to post 3 pics though.

 

[serpenttongue]

Top idea there Pete. Really good!! But i think it would be better if the sides stay as dirt/clay or are concrete so it stays cooler in there rather than a plastic tub that may still be warm to the touch. But still really good, dude...i'm really impressed by that!!

When did you do that, anyway?

 

[peterjohnson64]

Hey ST. I did it over Christmas. I bought the aviary last year and it got smashed on New years Day when we had the storm. I was originally going to concrete the edges or leave them clay but when I dug down I hit water (a rare thing around here) so I was concerned about it being too wet. The cover is actually 2 inch thick polystyrene with painted fibro on top. The plastic box does not get any heat whatsoever because of the polystyrene top. I have to get myself a dual probe thermostat to work out the temperature differences. Then I gotta get myself some diamond pythons (oops, I meant Sydney Carpet Pythons)

Edit - also, the roof is 12mm plywood with 2 inches of polystyrene (cool room type) with tin on top. Thats why it has the fascia. The sun only shines in until about 11am and then a bit in the afternoon (when the photo was taken). The beauty of being able to build my anclosure AFTER I have read all the great advice you have previously given.

 

[zulu]

re Diamond

Top idea there Pete. Really good!! But i think it would be better if the sides stay as dirt/clay or are concrete so it stays cooler in there rather than a plastic tub that may still be warm to the touch. But still really good, dude...i'm really impressed by that!!

When did you do that, anyway?

Reall good peter but like serp said it would be better as just a clay hole on the bottom so they had contact with it and insulation on the bottom of the cover and positioned so it didnt get rain in the hole.I think they would get to know all of their enclosures and where temps were best and they apparently relate to the earth in relation to the moisture content as well as the temperature so they may not be as happy in something like plastic or concrete.Apparently it is the direct contact with earth and the subsequent cooling effect that they like,no problem for an accountant hey pete,what was that you guys had,a bottom of the harbour scheme or something :lol:

 

[zulu]

re Diamond

You already posted first pete but sounds good,ide still be definetly removing the box thing you want the snake in contact with the ground .

 

[peterjohnson64]

what about lining it with grass clippings like ST's nesting boxes? I am just concerned about water and the inability to evaporate because of the insulated qualities of the hide??? Of course, a snake can stay in water for a whole day and not get scale rot and I guess they only need to be in the hide for the heat of the day and can come out again at night?? And then I get a spare black tub. cool.

Edit: the water in the hole is ground water, not from rain getting in.

 

[serpenttongue]

So did you lay the concrete base yourself, Pete. How long did it take to cure?

If it is slightly wet in the hole then crass cuttings would eventually become a soggy rotten mess. Perhaps concrete the floor but leave the sides as soil or add a layer of soil about 10cm deep to the floor and hope that it stays dry. Or add a layer of soil onto a concrete floor.

Indeed a snake laying in dampness for a day or so wont get scale rot or respiratory infection, but you wouldnt want them spending winter in there while there's ground water present.

 

[zulu]

re Diamond

Ile probably use a mound of clay soil with a roof over the top of the aviary then have a burrow entry in the side facing east for morning sun and protect the top of the burrow collapsing by a wire net covered in moulded clay but it is all earth surround and need not be too big

 

[junglemad]

That's a good idea Pete..i am going to pinch it

 

[peterjohnson64]

ST, yeah I did lay the slab myself. Just before laying the "fossil rock". As a 75cm slab I only gave it a day to cure. I have also riveted strapping to the top & bottom of the aviary and ran it under the full length of the slab to ensure that it doesn't get ripped apart by a cyclone. I reckon it is cool for a cyclone now.

and I guess everyone elses will be better now. But isn't that why we post them up here? Its only the animals that win.

And I keep stressing, there is absolutely no heat whatsoever in the black plastic tub. I know that they hold heat. But they only hold heat that they absorb. First they gotta absorb it. And the 2 inches of Poly make sure that that won't happen. It is cool as under there. and Dry (which I also like)

 

[baby*bear*21]

I just got my juvie diamond today.....how often should i feed him? he's on pinkie mice

 

[zen]

I recommend feeding after the last meal has gone through i.e after it defecates.

Sometimes I'll wait a few more days for them to get a bit hungry, as would happen in the wild.

I also find that they become more active and search around when hungry, which is good exercise. As a flabby body/loss of muscle tone is one of the symptoms of DPS (Diamond Python Syndrome) and as exercise helps maintain muscle tone, it can only help.
For this purpose I also recommend you put several secure branches in the enclosure.

One more thing is not to keep juvenile Diamonds in tiny click-clacks etc like is often done with other python species, for the above reasons. For ambush hunters they're quite active and I've seen them foraging through trees and on the ground in the wild.
Exercise probably won't prevent the development of DPS, as no other single preventative factor is likely to. But a combination of all the advice given is your best bet.
1. Access to U.V
2. Do not overfeed.
3. Access to cool areas at all times and never overheat.
4. Exercise
5. Minimize stress and don't handle too often or for too long.