Do you eat Meat or Dairy - if so why?

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Why do you eat Meat &/or Dairy

  • Habit

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tradition

    Votes: 6 10.9%
  • Convenience

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Taste

    Votes: 27 49.1%
  • 'Health'

    Votes: 15 27.3%
  • Other - please list any other reasons

    Votes: 7 12.7%

  • Total voters
    55
Status
Not open for further replies.
There are many observational studies showing that red meat consumption is associated with an increased risk of cancer.

A recurrent problem in these studies is that they seem to pool together processed meat and unprocessed red meat. This gives a very slanted outcome to the results.

Meta-analyses where researchers analyze data from many studies show that the increased risk of colorectal cancer is very low. One meta-analysis found a weak effect for men, but no effect for women.

Most other studies show that it may not be the meat itself that is contributing to the increased risk, but harmful compounds that form when the meat is cooked.

When you look closely, pretty much all the studies that apparently “prove” that red meat causes harm are so-called observational studies. These types of studies can only demonstrate correlation, that two variables are associated.

One of the main problems with such studies is that they are plagued by various confounding factors. For example, people who eat red meat (and everyone “knows” that red meat is bad, right?) are less health conscious and more likely to smoke, drink excessively, eat more sugar, exercise less, etc.

The people who are health conscious behave very differently than people who are not and it is impossible to correct for all of these factors.

The trouble with almost all research conducted in this area is that it is almost inevitable biased based on preconceived outcomes based on who is funding said research.

The reality is, animal protein can increase the IGF-1 protein level in your body. The IGF signaling pathway has a pathogenic role in cancer. Studies have shown that increased levels of IGF lead to increased growth of existing cancer cells. This however does not cause cancer, but has been sensationalised and used by pro-vegan studies to promote this incorrect point of view.
 
You may not ever have any children if you follow a vegan diet, and in case you do, you will be condemning your kids to a life of poor health and misery. Here’s what Dutch researcher P C Dagnelie has to say about the risks of a vegetarian diet: “ A vegan diet. . . leads to strongly increased risk of deficiencies of vitamin B[SUB]12[/SUB], vitamin B[SUB]2[/SUB] and several minerals, such as calcium, iron and zinc. . . even a lacto-vegetarian diet produces an increased risk of deficiencies of vitamin B[SUB]12[/SUB] and possibly certain minerals such as iron.”[SUP]27[/SUP] These deficiencies can adversely affect not only physical growth but also neurological development. And following a vegan diet while pregnant is a recipe for disaster.
You will, however, by embracing vegetarianism, provide a market for vegetarian products—the kind of highly processed, high-profit foods advertised in Vegetarian Times.
 
Okay tell be how you get B12 from anything other than meat?

A vegan diet may lack vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary minerals like calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these nutrients, they will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve damage

I get plenty of B12 vitamins from Spirulina., thanks for your concern though.


Show me a study that shows vegan breast milk contains enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3

I am sure you are capable of looking that up yourself if you are really interested, as I mentioned I am not interested in wasting energy debating you, you obviously have more time on your hands then I do as I really couldnt be bothered trying to prove things to you.
The hard work has been done, its up to you to watch it & research it yourself.
 
I get plenty of B12 vitamins from Spirulina., thanks for your concern though.




I am sure you are capable of looking that up yourself if you are really interested, as I mentioned I am not interested in wasting energy debating you, you obviously have more time on your hands then I do as I really couldnt be bothered trying to prove things to you.
The hard work has been done, its up to you to watch it & research it yourself.

No you don't B12 is only found in animals. Also I did look it up.. No way would I do that to my kids!

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When you don't even understand B12 I have to wonder if you are taking care of yourself without the right knowledge to be vegan...
Spirulina is not considered to be a reliable source of Vitamin B[SUB]12[/SUB]. Spirulina supplements contain predominantly pseudovitamin B[SUB]12[/SUB], which is biologically inactive in humans.
The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada in their position paper on vegetarian diets state that spirulina cannot be counted on as a reliable source of active vitamin B[SUB]12.[/SUB] The medical literature similarly advises that spirulina is unsuitable as a source of B[SUB]12[/SUB]
 
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meat free vs meat is a great debate. I'll tell you my story...

3 years ago my dad was diagnosed with non hodgkin's lymphoma its was VERY aggressive and in 2 weeks what had started as a marble size lump on the kidney had turned to cancerous tumors throughout his body it even ventured into his eyes and brain. Docs were certain that chemo and radiation wouldn't work but they started anyway.

At the time of the treatment starting i was looking for natural alternatives if it didnt work. I ended up finding a book called the china study... awesome read! Its all about animal based proteins and cancers. So i gave it to dad and said read it. Afterwards i sat next to him and said "Lets do it..." No animal based proteins, No Casein (Milk or dairy), No sugar... Me being a type 1 diabetic this was going to be fun :)

The first week was a killer!!! going from 1 litre of milk per day to soy milk and no meat !!! finding new recipes!! im sure all converted know what im talking about. after a week though i felt lighter... and generally better. My blood glucose readings were CRAZY good!

After Dad and i had been on this change for 5 months he had received all his chemo and was about to start radiation on his eyes and head. They sent him into do tests of remaining cancer... to this day the docs still have no idea how but they had placed him into remission (well the cancer was no longer visible). to the extent that the doctors reduced the radiation to a 1/2 dose!

Now im not going to say that it was the no protein diet thing but it to this day i dont eat meat, dairy and minimal sugar. My insulin dose has halved! and my dad has had no relapse 2.5 years later! finger crossed it stays like that... for me changing was health related. As long as animal are killed humanly then each to their own.

On a side note... as the earth gets more and more over populated it maybe the only option for people to eat plants only. You think about it. The amount of land needed to bring up 100 cattle or animals... with same amount of land the number of plants would out number it significantly!
 
Yes that is why people have been sent to jail over it... Its FACT.

Studies show that vegan breast milk lacks enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3 fat found in fatty fish. It is difficult to overstate the importance of DHA, vital as it is for eye and brain development.
A vegan diet is equally dangerous for weaned babies and toddlers

I do hope you have already had children. I for one would hate to look at my children if they suffered somehow from a choice I made that affected their development.

I watched a few. But they didn't show any real evidence. I can show you a doco on big foot and that he exists.

Okay tell be how you get B12 from anything other than meat?


A vegan diet may lack vitamin B12, found only in animal foods; usable vitamins A and D, found in meat, fish, eggs and butter; and necessary minerals like calcium and zinc. When babies are deprived of all these nutrients, they will suffer from retarded growth, rickets and nerve damage

Show me a study that shows vegan breast milk contains enough docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, the omega-3

No you don't B12 is only found in animals. Also I did look it up.. No way would I do that to my kids!

- - - Updated - - -
When you don't even understand B12 I have to wonder if you are taking care of yourself without the right knowledge to be vegan...
Spirulina is not considered to be a reliable source of Vitamin B[SUB]12[/SUB]. Spirulina supplements contain predominantly pseudovitamin B[SUB]12[/SUB], which is biologically inactive in humans.
The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada in their position paper on vegetarian diets state that spirulina cannot be counted on as a reliable source of active vitamin B[SUB]12.[/SUB] The medical literature similarly advises that spirulina is unsuitable as a source of B[SUB]12[/SUB]


Making comments about me having children is a little off topic don't you think? I am not even going to entertain that further.

This isnt a debate about B12 vitamins, I know enough about b12 vitamins to know I dont need to be worried about lacking them.
As mentioned I havent given up dairy products.
& besides that the human body only needs 3 micrograms of b12 per day, we possess bacteria in our mouth & intestines that produce it naturally.
& unless you are eating your meat raw your not getting as much b12 as you think you are.

 

Making comments about me having children is a little off topic don't you think? I am not even going to entertain that further.

This isnt a debate about B12 vitamins, I know enough about b12 vitamins to know I dont need to be worried about lacking them.
As mentioned I havent given up dairy products.
& besides that the human body only needs 3 micrograms of b12 per day, we possess bacteria in our mouth & intestines that produce it naturally.
& unless you are eating your meat raw your not getting as much b12 as you think you are.

That's my whole point. It's fine to chose a lifestyle. As long as it doesn't interfere with another life. Adults are much better suited to a vegan diet. But breast feeding mothers and growing children are not. That's the facts and in light of the deaths of children at the hands of vegans it is important for people to know.


The two B12 reactions are crucial for rapidly growing cells and the key to understanding its major functions in the body. For example, the bone marrow, a sponge-like tissue inside bones, needs B12 to produce healthy red blood cells. B12 is also required to maintain the rapidly dividing cells lining the gastrointestinal tract. Since B12 is required for DNA production and cell division, adequate levels during pregnancy are necessary for normal fetal growth and development.

B12 also has a fundamental role in the development and function of the brain and nervous system. B12 is involved in the formation of myelin, the protective coating that surrounds nerve fibers. It is also need to produce neurotransmitters, the chemicals that carry nerve signals between cells.
.
 
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meat free vs meat is a great debate. I'll tell you my story...

3 years ago my dad was diagnosed with non hodgkin's lymphoma its was VERY aggressive and in 2 weeks what had started as a marble size lump on the kidney had turned to cancerous tumors throughout his body it even ventured into his eyes and brain. Docs were certain that chemo and radiation wouldn't work but they started anyway.

At the time of the treatment starting i was looking for natural alternatives if it didnt work. I ended up finding a book called the china study... awesome read! Its all about animal based proteins and cancers. So i gave it to dad and said read it. Afterwards i sat next to him and said "Lets do it..." No animal based proteins, No Casein (Milk or dairy), No sugar... Me being a type 1 diabetic this was going to be fun :)

The first week was a killer!!! going from 1 litre of milk per day to soy milk and no meat !!! finding new recipes!! im sure all converted know what im talking about. after a week though i felt lighter... and generally better. My blood glucose readings were CRAZY good!

After Dad and i had been on this change for 5 months he had received all his chemo and was about to start radiation on his eyes and head. They sent him into do tests of remaining cancer... to this day the docs still have no idea how but they had placed him into remission (well the cancer was no longer visible). to the extent that the doctors reduced the radiation to a 1/2 dose!

Now im not going to say that it was the no protein diet thing but it to this day i dont eat meat, dairy and minimal sugar. My insulin dose has halved! and my dad has had no relapse 2.5 years later! finger crossed it stays like that... for me changing was health related. As long as animal are killed humanly then each to their own.

On a side note... as the earth gets more and more over populated it maybe the only option for people to eat plants only. You think about it. The amount of land needed to bring up 100 cattle or animals... with same amount of land the number of plants would out number it significantly!

Thanks for sharing! & So Great to hear your dad was able to beat it!
I have spoken to a few people that have told me about their success with fighting Cancer with natural/wholefood diets.
It really is amazing to hear & read some of the stories out there.
 
VEGAN MOTHERS - BRAIN DAMAGED INFANTS

CONCLUSION:

In Dr. John Fielder's practice outside Cairns, Australia, he has had this experience:
vegan women have typically been sterile
or had brain damaged babies
or had babies who didn't grow or some other abnormal outcome


Below is something that naturopath John Fielder recently posted to the Rawlife list. He repeats this on his website, http://www.ig.com.au/anl. He said in a later post that he has seen these negative outcomes in about a dozen cases. Mark

"My experience with vegans on both a raw food regimen and mixed raw and
cooked has been to the effect that when they were on the vegan diet they
were either, sterile (unable to reproduce), had children which did not
grow, or had children born brain damaged, to mention a few of the outcomes. When
they subsequently included some form of animal product in their diet, be
it raw eggs, raw yoghurt or koumiss, or raw meat, then the sterility
disappeared and pregnancy occurred, with the subsequent birth of a healthy
child, the children grew normally, any children born subsequently were
healthy and developed normally.

If, in the instance of the mother(s) who had been sterile, and
subsequently conceived after the introduction of the animal product, then ceased to
include the animal product in the diet, invariably the child would be born
with brain damage."

Dr. John Fielder
http://www.ig.com.au/anl
 
VEGAN MOTHERS - BRAIN DAMAGED INFANTS

CONCLUSION:

In Dr. John Fielder's practice outside Cairns, Australia, he has had this experience:
vegan women have typically been sterile
or had brain damaged babies
or had babies who didn't grow or some other abnormal outcome


Below is something that naturopath John Fielder recently posted to the Rawlife list. He repeats this on his website, http://www.ig.com.au/anl. He said in a later post that he has seen these negative outcomes in about a dozen cases. Mark

"My experience with vegans on both a raw food regimen and mixed raw and
cooked has been to the effect that when they were on the vegan diet they
were either, sterile (unable to reproduce), had children which did not
grow, or had children born brain damaged, to mention a few of the outcomes. When
they subsequently included some form of animal product in their diet, be
it raw eggs, raw yoghurt or koumiss, or raw meat, then the sterility
disappeared and pregnancy occurred, with the subsequent birth of a healthy
child, the children grew normally, any children born subsequently were
healthy and developed normally.

If, in the instance of the mother(s) who had been sterile, and
subsequently conceived after the introduction of the animal product, then ceased to
include the animal product in the diet, invariably the child would be born
with brain damage."

Dr. John Fielder
http://www.ig.com.au/anl
Why is my niece fine then
 
VEGAN CENTENARIANS – WHERE ARE THEY?

CONCLUSION:

The beauty and simplicity of Veganism and Fruitarianism sounds appealing, but ....
Of 60,000 centenarians in the United States, there are no vegans or fruitarians
Many well-known vegans have died early after battling severe illnesses for years
Short-term, raw vegan diets offer enormous benefits in overcoming serious health problems.
Long-term, physical and psychological deterioration will almost certainly occur.


Vegan Centenarians – Where Are They?
by Brian White

In recent years, I’ve noticed a growing trend among young people to follow the teachings of vegan ‘gurus’ like David Wolfe, Douglas Graham, Paul Nison and Gabriel Cousens. Many of these followers are obsessed in their dietary beliefs and have unrealistic expectations of ‘living to 100 in a perfect state of health.’ They overlook the fact that most vegan leaders have died prematurely after battling severe illnesses for years. They also fail to produce a single authenticated vegan centenarian to validate their beliefs.
While the beauty and simplicity of Veganism and Fruitarianism sounds appealing, there’s just one tiny flaw ….. the vast majority of people who attempt these diets will fail. Eventually, chronic health problems caused by nutritional deficiencies will force them to add animal foods into their diets. Sadly, many misguided health- seekers will ignore this warning and suffer the consequences. How do I know this? Because 30 years of research and experience tells me so.
Think about this for a moment; if the utopian claims made about these dietary regimes are genuine, where are all the vegan/fruitarian centenarians??
There are an estimated 60,000 centenarians in the United States, 9,000 in the United Kingdom, and 3,000 here in Australia. Most are meat eaters and a few are vegetarian, but I’ve never heard of any who are vegan or fruitarian.
In fact, in one of the world’s longest-running studies of authenticated centenarians ever undertaken, it was found that none of the participants were vegan, fruitarian or even vegetarian! The Okinawa Centenarian Study has been ongoing since 1976 and examined the lives of over 600 centenarians who were living their traditional lifestyle. Their diets included fish, pork, poultry, dairy products and eggs.
While I acknowledge they only represent a small percentage of the population, vegan and fruitarian groups have existed for a long time, so they’ve had ample opportunity to establish their longevity bonafides …..

David Wolfe claims, “My mom is from Persia, and in that country they have vegan communities dating back thousands of years. They also have raw-vegan communities with similar traditions.”
Then why isn’t every television station in the world reporting on this super-race? After “thousands of years” of dietary and genetic purity, you’d expect to hear of hundreds of fully verified, healthy centenarians living today. Where are they?

The Arnold Ehret Health Club has operated in the U.S. since the 1920’s, so there should be plenty of 100 –120 year old fruitarians running around. Yet, when I contacted the club, they admitted they were not aware of any Ehret devotee who has reached 100. It seems that fruitarian centenarians are rarer than Bigfoot!

H. Jay Dinshah was the founder and president of the American Vegan Society. Although a vegetarian from birth, then a vegan for 43 years, he died from a heart attack at just 66 years of age.

Herbert M. Shelton was the most influential Natural Hygienist of the 20th century. For six decades he preached the superiority of a raw vegan diet of fruits, vegetables and nuts. Did he enjoy a long and vigorous life? No! He was in a declining state of health in his sixties, and was bedridden for the final 13 years of his life due to Parkinson’s disease. He died at just 89.

His protégé, T.C. Fry, taught the infallibility of a raw vegan diet for 26 years, yet he died at the ridiculously young age of 70!! However, even more disturbing is the fact that he suffered from numerous health problems long before his death. According to Dr Bernarr Zovluck, a close friend for 30 years, Fry died from coronary embolism. He also had multiple atherosclerotic thrombi of his lower legs, edema, a lesion on his left lung, anemia, high acid blood pH, breathing problems, constipation, osteoporosis, teeth and gum problems, etc.
Yes indeed, his vegan/fruitarian diet certainly worked miracles for his health!

George R. Clements (AKA Hilton Hotema, AKA Kenyon Klamonti) claimed he became a vegan at 9 years of age after reading a book about health at school. He also claimed he lived as a breatharian-fruitarian for almost 80 years and would “live to be 150 years of age.” He only managed to reach 92.

Hereward Carrington, author of The Natural Food of Man, believed that a strict diet of raw fruits and nuts could “sustain man in a perfect state of health”. He died at 78 years of age.

Dr O.L.M. Abramowski was a German born doctor who immigrated to Australia in 1884. While working at the Mildura District Hospital, he successfully treated patients with fresh fruit and juices. He wrote several books including Fruitarian Diet and Physical Rejuvenation and thought his diet of raw fruit, nuts and grains would enable him to reach 100 –120 years. He died at 58.


Ross Horne, Australia’s most famous raw food author, believed his fruitarian diet was superior to all others. I met Ross in 1983 and corresponded with him periodically over the years. Despite rigidly adhering to his tropical fruit diet for 22 years, he died last year of Prostate Cancer. He was only 79. Ironically, his final book was titled Cancerproof Your Body.

Summary:
As an 18 year old searching for the secrets of perfect health and long life, I had a voracious appetite for knowledge and devoured every book I could find; from Vilhjalmur Stefansson to Adelle Davis to Arnold Ehret; from carnivorous to omnivorous to frugivorous. Over the past three decades I’ve read hundreds of books and scientific studies relating to diet, nutritional supplements and natural therapies. In addition to experimenting on myself, I’ve also observed the practical, long-term effects various diets have on people. Along the way I’ve encountered charlatans, liars and delusional individuals who make ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims about therapies, diets and products.
After 30 years of research, I have no doubts that the foundation of a healthy diet should be fresh, raw, organically grown vegetables and fruits (and their juices), plus sprouts, nuts and seeds. Short-term, raw vegan diets offer enormous benefits in overcoming serious health problems. However, long-term physical and psychological deterioration will almost certainly occur unless animal foods such as eggs, fish or dairy products are consumed. Those who refuse to do this should supplement with B12 (methylcobalamin), folic acid and flax or hemp seeds. Copyright © 2005 Brian White

About The Author:
Brian White has been researching health related topics for over 30 years and has authored several controversial articles on Diet, Nutritional Supplements and Natural Therapies – using scientific evidence.


This article courtesy of http://www.wholefooddirectory.com.


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Why is my niece fine then

Who knows what brain function she is missing? Who knows what she could have been or how her body has been affected or under developed?
The biggest problem is people armed with a little knowledge doing these diets. We've seen first hand Gecko fail to understand the difference between risk and cause. What certain vitamins do and why we need them. Admittedly adults do not require the same amount as a growing child.
My sister catered for the Royal Collage of Surgens. So surgens from all over the world. When medical staff at that calibre are eating meat and balanced diets I think you have to take into consideration what they see and do everyday.
I think there are real problems with our society and we do not eat many things in moderation that we should. And I think some peoples health is directly affected by that.

- - - Updated - - -

Why is my niece fine then
Also you have to look at the language used. Typically is not every instance is it? Would I risk my own childs health over something so trivial? No way!!!
 
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VEGAN MOTHERS - BRAIN DAMAGED INFANTS

CONCLUSION:

In Dr. John Fielder's practice outside Cairns, Australia, he has had this experience:
vegan women have typically been sterile
or had brain damaged babies
or had babies who didn't grow or some other abnormal outcome


Below is something that naturopath John Fielder recently posted to the Rawlife list. He repeats this on his website, http://www.ig.com.au/anl. He said in a later post that he has seen these negative outcomes in about a dozen cases. Mark

"My experience with vegans on both a raw food regimen and mixed raw and
cooked has been to the effect that when they were on the vegan diet they
were either, sterile (unable to reproduce), had children which did not
grow, or had children born brain damaged, to mention a few of the outcomes. When
they subsequently included some form of animal product in their diet, be
it raw eggs, raw yoghurt or koumiss, or raw meat, then the sterility
disappeared and pregnancy occurred, with the subsequent birth of a healthy
child, the children grew normally, any children born subsequently were
healthy and developed normally.

If, in the instance of the mother(s) who had been sterile, and
subsequently conceived after the introduction of the animal product, then ceased to
include the animal product in the diet, invariably the child would be born
with brain damage."

Dr. John Fielder
http://www.ig.com.au/anl

i dont know if you meant it or not but this has been taken out of context... The part above the paragraphs you a quoted is about FRUITARIANISM not wholesome vegan diet. this is the whole item:

FRUITARIANISM

What was your experience as a fruitarian - that made you conclude it is not the ultimate in nutrition? With yourself or others?

My experience with fruitarianism was both with myself and many others. The climate here in the tropics is very conducive to living only on fruit, nuts, seeds etc. The first three years appear to be very good, with the next two a plateau, and then it is all down hill. I have been in contact with many people who have had the same experience, or similar. That is of course if they are strict with their diet and don't cheat. And some who were just that, they didn't make it, they died.

I have seen couples who just could not conceive until such time as they added some form of animal product to their diet. And if they continued this way the children were normal. But if they discontinued the animal product as soon as they conceived the child was born brain damaged.

The number of brain damaged children due to the vegan diet I would consider to have been around 3%, that is three in every 100 births. And there should not have been any. These people were not exposed to chemicals, or any other factor that I could find. And they definitely were not involved in the use of social drugs.

The addition of the animal product refers to a vegan diet which includes vegetables and not only fruit. The animal product could be either raw or cooked. It is my own personal belief that if we were able to follow this whole cycle through and observe all its ramifications, as with Pottenger and his cats, we would find that the animal product would produce far superior results if it were raw.

I have observed children who have not grown from the age of nine months for the next two years because the parents adopted a fruitarian regimen, and so fed the child. The non-growth of the children was, and is, common where the children are fed exclusively on fruit.

No I am not in favour of fruitarianism.

Taken from An Historical Interview with John Fielder
 
Snowman, I think you have made your opinion well a truly known.
Probably no need to keep harping on with your opinion.
This is not even a thread about being vegan, perhaps you could start your own thread if you feel so passionate about veganism, Meat & B12 Vitamins.

I don't know you but can see you spend a fair amount of time on here & I have seen you post on many occasions & it seems to be your nature to be aggressive & persistent & attempt to take over other peoples threads but you really don't know everything & it wouldnt hurt for you to be a little more open minded, you may actually learn a thing or 2.

The amount of time you have wasted making useless quotes & comments you could have answered each & every single question,statement/comment you have made by watching the documentaries I linked you to.

Until you have watched them I dont care to continue wasting time entertaining your comments & questions.
I also find it absolutely laughable that you are trying to educate me about ethics & eating healthy & you are a meat eater.
B12 vitamins should be the least of your worries & priorities!
 
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By Michelle Roberts
BBC News health reporter, in Washington DC




Meat, milk, butter and cheese are all avoided by vegans
Putting children on strict vegan diets is "unethical" and could harm their development, a US scientist has argued.


Lindsay Allen, of the US Agricultural Research Service, attacked parents who insisted their children lived by the maxim "meat is murder".


Animal source foods have some nutrients not found anywhere else, she told a Washington science conference.


The Vegan Society dismissed the claims, saying its research showed vegans were often healthier than meat eaters.


'Development affected'


Professor Allen said: "There have been sufficient studies clearly showing that when women avoid all animal foods, their babies are born small, they grow very slowly and they are developmentally retarded, possibly permanently."



There's absolutely no question that it's unethical for parents to bring up their children as strict vegans
Professor Lindsay Allen, US Agricultural Research Service
"If you're talking about feeding young children, pregnant women and lactating women, I would go as far as to say it is unethical to withhold these foods [animal source foods] during that period of life."


She was especially critical of parents who imposed a vegan lifestyle on their children, denying them milk, cheese, butter and meat.


"There's absolutely no question that it's unethical for parents to bring up their children as strict vegans," she told the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).


Missing nutrients


She said the damage to a child began while it was growing in the womb and continued once it had been born.


Research she carried out among African schoolchildren suggests as little as two spoonfuls of meat each day is enough to provide nutrients such as vitamin B12, zinc and iron.


The 544 children studied had been raised on diets chiefly consisting of starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean staples lacking these micronutrients.


This meant they were already malnourished.


Over two years, some of the children were given 2oz supplements of meat each day, equivalent to about two spoonfuls of mince.


Two other groups received either a cup of milk a day or an oil supplement containing the same amount of energy. The diet of a fourth group was left unaltered.



HAVE YOUR SAY
A wide-ranging mixed diet with exercise is essential for any child
James, Cornwall, UK


Send us your views
The changes seen in the children given the meat, and to a lesser extent the milk or oil, were dramatic.


These children grew more and performed better on problem-solving and intelligence tests than any of the other children at the end of the two years.


Adding either meat or milk to the diets also almost completely eliminated the very high rates of vitamin B12 deficiency previously seen in the children.


No quick fixes


Professor Allen stressed that although the study (which was partially supported by the National Cattleman's Beef Association) was conducted in a poor African community that was malnourished, its message was highly relevant to people in developed countries.


She accepted that adults could avoid animal foods if they took the right supplements, but she said adding animal source food into the diet was a better way to tackle malnutrition worldwide than quick fixes with supplements in the form of pills.


"Where feasible, it would be much better to do it through the diet than by giving pills," she said.


"With pills it's very hard to be certain that the quantity of nutrition is right for everybody and it's hard to sustain."


In Africa, good results had been obtained from giving people a dried meat on a stick snack which proved both nutritious and appealing.


Professor Montague Demment, from the University of California at Davis, said more emphasis should be placed on animal source food to combat global malnutrition.


Vegan defence


However, the claims have been dismissed by the Vegan Society in the UK.


In a statement, it said increasing numbers of people were opting for a plant-based diet.


Kostana Azmi, the chief executive officer, said: "The vegan diet can provide you with more energy, nutrition, and is bursting with goodness."


She said plant sources were sometimes a safer, and cheaper source of nutrients.


For instance, animal sources of omega-3 oils, needed for the development of the brain and nervous system, were often contaminated with pollutants, such as mercury in fish.


In addition, the vegan diet was often a healthier alternative. She said dairy and meat products were rich in saturated fat, while plant based diets were low in it.


The society does recommend that vegans supplement their diet with vitamin B-12 pills.
 
Full disclosure - I'm a meat-eater but in answer to this specific point have a look here: Position statement - Meat and cancer prevention - National Cancer Prevention Policy

"Major cancer prevention reports have stated that there is convincing evidence that red and processed meat increase the risk of bowel cancer."

Granted, everything these days seems to cause cancer but the scientific link is there.
The study is looking at high intake of red meat, is this higher than the RDI for red meat and is this the cause of the bowel cancer?
Did you see the Documentaries I posted earlier?
All very informative, life changing & worth watching.
Just to quantify my thoughts on the matter both my parents died of cancer at around 50 , my father contracted stomach cancer at around 30 which he survived into his early 50's where he died of his second bout of stomach cancer and my mother died of bowel cancer. Not one time had my mothers doctors suggested a link to red meat consumption or recommended that it be cut out of her diet. I am under the belief that too much of most things be harmful to you or trigger another illness. A car crash at 20 km/h will most likely not be harmful to you but a car crash at 200km/h will almost definitely be harmful and sometimes fateful but that does not cause people to start saying that driving cars is killing people.
 
I don't know you but can see you spend a fair amount of time on here & I have seen you post on many occasions & it seems to be your nature to be aggressive & persistent & attempt to take over other peoples threads but you really don't know everything & it wouldnt hurt for you to be a little more open minded, you may actually learn a thing or 2.


Really please quote me an example...
I am blunt and to the point, but no more than anyone else with aspergers. Aspergers doesn't affect my intelligence however (just the way I relate to people) and I feel that you are lacking some facts. I enjoy PROVING my point with facts.
I trust admin would suspend me if I was a trouble maker and I take to heart your personal attack on me.

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I guess its some consolation that my posts get likes, which shows others support my point of view. Something your posts seem to be lacking..
 
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Raised a hunter, love meat. Dairy makes me a bit windy though ;) Gotta say, this thread is a howl! OK, maybe just one teeny-weeny pot stir...

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Most of my relatives were raised on farms in europe before moving to aus 50 years ago. They eat meat with almost every meal, so I guess I followed.
 
Ha ha ha . what a funny thread , I started reading all of the posts but soon got bored so I scrolled through -- only to stop at and like the venus flytrap pic .

Meat , it is interesting that if you look at the food chain most/ all of the top contenders are ????? Carnivore or at least omnivores . there must be a reason for his , AND without too much fanfare ,, ITS "brain DEVELOPMENT "

We as humans are the only animal to have a "choice "of diet , everything else eats seasonally or as per availability . I have never heard a lion saying that he didn't want too eat that wildebeest because he cared about its feelings .


As a chef I have had to put up with some rubbish Dietary choice requirements over the years , dietary requirements on the other hand I have never had a problem with .

Running one of Sydney's best MEAT establishments through the 80's I had many a good laugh / mental challenge with the VEGGIE customers . and then an episode of whites a few weeks ago brought it all back ( sorry mods ) Delete away

:lol:
W a n k e r s
 
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