Do you know about Vens?

[earthmother]

I need some information on the snakes listed below:-

Green Tree Snake (?)
Brown Tree Snake
Yellow Faced Whip Snake
Red Bellied Black Snake
Common Adder
Copperhead
Devis Banded Snake
Dwarfed Crown Snake
Black Belly Swamp Snake
Mustard Bellied Snake
Red Naped Snake
Pale Head Snake
Broad Headed Snake
Stephens Banded
Eastern Tiger Snake
Blackish Blind snake

The local Fire Chief and I were talking, he likes reptiles and I asked him if they had any training in how to deal with snakes if they come across them in a fire.
He said, they'd had little to no training - comprised of a 1 hour lecture of some very basic knowledge. They were told how to deal with a Taipan if they come across one - - unfortunately we do not have Taipans in this region.

He knew some areas where they find Adders and Browns and we talked about the need to be able to recognise the local snakes.

The comeuppance is, I need to know the idiosyncrasies of these snakes listed above.
Personal experience is what I need to draw on now - and I'm lacking.


Either CB or a Wild. In particular;
Some obvious signs to look for in distinguishing a snakes ID
their temperament,
whether they envenomate when they bite - singular or multiple bites,
hiding places,
strike stances,
time periods before venom takes effect,
What action to take if bitten.

I have some of this information already but I would like to see what the more experienced know and have learnt.
Thankyou in advance :lol:

 

[Gregory]

Isn't Bob Gleeson the Fire Dept's Reptile guru?

 

[Switch]

The Broadhead is a snake im very interested in finding out more about.
Records suggest that Lithgow, were im from, was their western boundry but i have lived here for 32 years and never seen one, would love to do a search one day and document some clever info on them if found.
They frequat rocky outcrops and live under and in around flat rocks and crevices of a winter and move to hollow logs in the summer, which is a problem with bushfires in summer, this and the collection of bushrock has been linked to their decline.
They can have similiar markings to a small Diamond Python, which can be detremental to ammeture collectors, they are venomous but their bite is not considered life threatening. Ill try to find a web link on the for you.

 

[earthmother]

Gregory - I don't know.

I was surprised when he said they don't get that kind of training. I'll mention his name to our friend. And get back to you.
Great thankyou Switch

 

[sarahbell]

GTS are not venomous

 

[nuthn2do]

EM,
I can help with YF Whip snake

<Some obvious signs to look for in distinguishing a snakes ID
Black tear-dropped shape or comma around eye - reminds me of an egyptian goddess for some reason, long thin olive brown variable.

<their temperament,
Very quick moving, never had one strike even when cornered

<whether they envenomate when they bite - singular or multiple bites,
Don't know, never been bitten

<hiding places,
Usually turn up outdoors in gardens, rock walls, around paving

<strike stances,
None noticed

<time periods before venom takes effect,
Don't know, never been bitten

<What action to take if bitten.
Standard compression procedure would be recommended, seek medical advice. Supposedly only swelling and pain but severe allergy needs to be considered

And the RBB
<Some obvious signs to look for in distinguishing a snakes ID
Apart from the obvious, the very high gloss black.

<their temperament,
reluctant to strike, prefers retreat

<whether they envenomate when they bite - singular or multiple bites,
Again never been bitten

<hiding places,
Prefer cooler damp places in the Summer - Laundries, around outside water tanks, drainage systems. Basically wherever you'd find a frog

<strike stances,
Raised, slightly flattened neck, hissing

<time periods before venom takes effect,
Depends on below

<What action to take if bitten.
Standard compression technique, seek medical treatment immediatly.

What about Eastern Browns? probably the biggest threat if they are in your area
Craig

 

[bigguy]

Hey Earthmother,

You will not find all those species in the same location. Whereabouts does this fireman live???????

 

[Guest]

Actually H. bungaroides are highly venomous and can kill you quite easily.... Chances are it wont but it easily COULD... I would seek immediate medical treatment after a bite frm this species, I have spoken to 4 people have been bitten by this snake, and the symptoms are not very nice!

 

[Tommo]

all australian colubrids are venomous. its just that gts dont have the delivery system of others

 

[Guest]

Ya beat me too it bastard Tommo

 

[Tommo]

what do you have against illegitimate children brodie

 

[nuthn2do]

Oh yeah, blind snakes just look like big worms with dull black spots for eyes, tiny mouth - harmless usually found when digging or moving rubbish

Red naped - Only encountered a couple both dead in swimming pool filters. About 30cm brownish coarse looking scalation, black head with a heart shaped red marking on back of neck.


Of course in the event of a fire, temperament of any snake would be unpredictable. Maybe why they are trained for taipans.
Craig

BTW, some our local fireies have been trained by the NSW reptile team for removal. Maybe something for them to consider?

 

[earthmother]

Thankyou for your assistance.

Sarah, they're Colubrids, rear fanged with venom glands - - most of us wouldn't see them as a danger, but still classed as being able to envenomate. ( maybe children are more in danger, I don't know)

Thankyou Nuthin2do - Gee, you do know and do alot for somebody with nuthin2do lol.

Yes, the Taipan's the ultimate way to learn to keep away from snakes, lol. But I was more concerned when he said they find lots of Adders just out of town and I thought but Adders don't hide the same way, or attack the same or strike- and if they're going to that area in the course of work they should know what to look for. Do you see what I mean?

Once again, when I asked him what they knew about the local venomous species - he said 'next to zip'.
He also has the Bush Fire Brigade, and said without hesistation - "bring me the Information". I do know that the recent Snake Course the Council gave them was totally inadequate.
I'll give him that man Gleesons name to contact.

Bigguy, It's the Great Lakes Region, but they're called to work all over the State. I really just named the Snakes I've heard of and sometimes seen in this region. I actually included some out of towners because I'm interested in their traits as well. Have you got any to add? I know you know alot Biguy, so tell!! lol

He said they've come across a Keelback Water Snake- once. So I know they must go north too.
Thankyou - this is so interesting.
Em

 

[moosenoose]

all australian colubrids are venomous. its just that gts dont have the delivery system of others

Generally it's because colubrids are rear fanged aren't they? They have to chew to envemonate their prey (or poor keeper LOL). I posted this question on another forum - do you need more than a basic license to keep colubrids? :roll:

 

[sobrien]

I wish I could help you moose, BUT I HAVE LOST MY SHEET THAT TELLS YOU THAT INFO GRRRRRR. Sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

 

[Guest]

moosenoose your a punk .... I would post you the info to the site but it is a different forum and you cant do that on here :S.. I will PM you it! interesting

 

[earthmother]

I decided to do a page for each species. Have I missed anything or is anything incorrect?

COMMON DEATH ADDER
Acanthopis antarcticus


The Death Adder is one of the most venomous Australian Snakes.
It is found prolifically in our local Great Lakes region in NSW.
It is a protected Species.


Death adders have many colour variations in their smooth scales - from light grey to reddish brown with staggered paler bands. It has a triangular head, a robust solid body and ends in a thin short tail with white tip. It can also have a dark 'V' shaped marking behind its head.

They grow to approximately 50-60 cms

This snake camouflages beautifully in and under leaf litter or loose sand. It lies perfectly still for hours.
It shakes the tip of its tail which looks vaguely like a small worm or grub, and uses it to attract prey such as Insect-eating Native Birds, small Mammals, Marsupials and Rodents.


It will lay in wait in a "C" shape, with it's mouth near its tail. It's aggressive stance is to flatten its strong body and stay in a coiled position. Its fangs are long and capable of administering large quanitities of powerfully neurotoxic venom.

The Death Adder will not retreat if humans approach.

Do not think they are sluggish because of their appearance. They strike repeatedly and rapidly.
The Adder does not always inject venom.
Their long fangs can envenomate lethal doses of neurotoxins deeply into the flesh.
The only proven and appropriate first aid for venomous snake bites is the pressure-immobilisation technique. ( See Next Page )

Watch for nests in the warmer seasons. The Adder gives birth bi-anually and will have from 2 - 33 live young. All of which are able to give a venomous bite from birth.

TO REMEMBER

Treat every bite as a potentially lethal situation.

Stay calm, immobilise and wrap the limb.

Death from snake bite is very rare and unlikely if you follow the basic compression bandage rules and make your way to the closest hospital. Try not to panic, by reminding yourself that there is a very good chance you'll survive, and that with the limb immobilized and you staying calm, the venom will stay localised.

As a rule, go straight to the hospital, but in fact you have a few hours up your sleeve.

If you recognise the snake, do not try to catch it. If you don't have an ID on the snake, try to take note of its appearance.
All hospitals have venom testing kits that will reveal the specific toxin within 30 minutes or less.

You are then administered the antivenom necessary to treat your snake bite.

If you do not have a compression bandage use anything that can be wrapped tightly around the site.

NOTE: Do not take the makeshift bandage off at anytime after the bite. - if you acquire a compression bandage wrap it OVER the makeshift bandage. Unfortunately doing so can lead to an insurge of the venom from the site into the system.

References.
Queensland Museum (1995) Wildlife of Greater Brisbane, Queensland Museum, Brisbane; The Snakes of Australia by Rick Shine; The members of APS Online Herpetological Society; Melbourne University Research Articles.
E.K(c)2004.

 

[peterescue]

EM. and you get sued when the s..t hits the fan. There are plans underway with the Fire Brigade to introduce vocational training. As it stand now none of the courses availabale are VTAB approved and as such fail to attract workers compensation insurance coverage.
Bob Gleason contacted me some time a go about SMWS putting a proramme together but Wires are already on the job with it.
Until then your local brigade could invest in a few books and liaise with any Wildlife rescue groups or general license holders in the area.
Peter

 

[earthmother]

Peter,

This was personally requested by the local Fire Chief. They have had no instruction and, I guess they could wait for Gleeson to get off his butt, but in the meantime they're coming across Death Adders almost daily even in this weather.

I've given him a book and I'm a general license holder.

Tell me how I can be sued.

 

[bigguy]

Em

Nice try. Make the length you have mentioned as average size, but can easily obtain 1 metre.

Also I have never heard of Death Adders nests nor nests of any other elapids in Australia.

I might also mention that the shape of the Death Adders resembles that of Bluetongue Lizards and to make sure that any Bluetongue that is about to be moved has legs.