Dog roll vs dog biscuits...

[KaotikJezta]

My small dogs get brisket bones, chicken wings and drumsticks, frames, necks , big dog gets chicken maryland, breast with ribs, frames, lamb necks, large brisket bones, boiler chooks, cat gets chicken necks, wings, raw fish, prawns, they all get organ meat, raw fish or offal once a week and they all get chicken mince here and there. The key is to make sure you feed bones with meat on them not just bare bones. Food should be about 20-30% there weight a week, so for my 30kg dog its about 800g per day. Costs me $15 to $20 per week to feed two small dogs, one large dog and a cat.

slim6y, do a google search 'dog food advisor'. You will be SHOCKED at what bad ratings all the expensive ''recommended by vets'' kibble get!

These expensive foods are rubbish and not worth the money. I was feeding my little one Advance and paying out of my *** for it! His behaviour changed, he became hyperactive and the most annoying little dog! He also developed 4 bald patches, 2 of which were very large. The vets didn't know what was causing it.

I decided at that point to change his diet, to RAW. Almost instantly his behaviour changed, he was still a playful puppy, but not the annoying disobedient jumping all over you puppy like a kid on red lollies! Within 2 weeks his bald patches were growing back, they have now totally disappeared.

I go to the Queen Victoria Market every fortnight and buy livers, kidneys, hearts, tongue and chicken necks. I chop it all up and mix it and weigh it out into individual portions. I also get ''Vets all Natural'' complete mix. This is like a dry muesli mix that you soak in water, it replicates the stomach contents of a prey animal that a wild dog would eat on a kill.

I will never go back to feeding processed or commercial dog foods.

My large dog had terrible skin and ear infections as well, he is almost completely cleared up. I treat the ear infection (yeast based) by mixing 2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar in either his water or mince and his ears which were terrible before are almost perfect now. One completely healed the other just about.

 

[Jay84]

I have heard the apple cider vinegar is great for lots of ailments. My mum is a bit of an alternative medicine freak lol

 

[sarah_m]

I tried mine on the roll for a while, just for something different. Within a short period of time their weight ballooned!! From my own experience I would NOT be advising anyone to use it. I am still looking for a dry food that I'm happy with.

 

[notechistiger]

These kinds of arguments are silly. Millions of dogs world wide are fed crappy "low quality" food their whole lives and do just fine. Same with dogs that are fed raw foods. There is no hard evidence to suggest feeding "low quality" food will cause any kind of serious reaction aside from the typical allergic reactions, which are also found in raw diets too! I'm not at all "pro-commerical". I just disagree with the whole "commercial foods are terrible, only ever feed raw" (and vice-versa), when it's simply not true. Every single dog is different, people seem to forget that

Your dog does best on what your dog does best on. That might be commercial, it might be raw, or it might be a mix of both. Give various things a try and see what works =)

 

[glassless_mind]

I wouldn't feed a dog the meat roll, as it is mostly water, and has very little nutrient and vitamin content, regardless of fat and salt.

The concern with foods being "better quality" than others, is whether or not the dog can access the nutrients in it. For example, a dog can utilise calcium in the form of calcium carbonate, but NOT calcium oxalate. So a food could say it has the recommended amount of calcium, but if it's in the form of calcium oxalate, then the dog is bascially getting zero, as it can't use what's in the food. This is the problem with supermarket brands. They are cheaper because they contain the nutrients in cheaper forms, which the dog's bodies may not be able to use = nutrient deficiencies. The expensive "vet" dog foods, will have the nutrients in forms the dogs can use, which costs more, but saves you money at the vets in the long run.

Hills is expensive, and considered better, as it is the ONLY brand of dog food which trials its food on live dogs, and measures nutrient deficiencies over the course of their lives. No other dog food does this. It might be more expensive, but that's why it's worth it.

Advance is crap, I'm not suprised anyone's dog didn't do well on it. One small animal nutritionist told our class it's the equivalent of feeding your dog nothing but 180 pizzas a year. Not a good idea.

Dogs do also have different preferences for food. I had a foster dog who loved beef, but wasn't really keen on anything else. We could leave hot food sitting out in front of him, and he'd sniff it and walk away. You can choose a cheap food your dog loves, and mix it in with the expensive food. Like you're doing with the dog roll I guess.

Canned food is a bit pointless, as it is about 90% water. Soaking dry food in water will have the same effect, but as has already been said, it isn't good for their dental health to just get that all the time. Bones should be given for oral health. The femurs from the butchers should be cut into quarters, so that the marrow is exposed. Otherwise the dog will try to get the open. Great for entertainment, but that cracking sound some people may have heard? Yeah that's their molars. They can actually split a tooth, and that leads to an expensive vet bill. My butcher doesn't charge anything to cut up the bones.

Chicken necks and carcasses have no nutritional value in them at all, they're just entertainment, and something to chew on. They can also carry Campylobacter foetus subspecies veneralis, which is definetely NOT recommended for puppies, older dogs, or immunocompromised dogs as it can lead to very severe diarrhoea, and end in death. Should only be given to healthy, adult animals.

Raw egg white does contain an element that breaks down some other nutrient. Someone said it was Vitamin B. I can't remember if this is right or not. However, I do remember that whatever is in it is counteracted by the egg yolk. It's ok to feed whole eggs, but not either portion alone. They do carry a risk of Salmonella, but in a healthy, adult dog, this shouldn't be a problem. Again, I wouldn't give it to a pup, an elderly, or immunocompromised dog.

I generally wouldn't recommend people make homemade diets. There is no possible way to garuntee the amount of vitamin and minerals in every meal. As seasons change, the food that is on sale changes. People are likely to buy what is cheaper that season, and the nutrients can vary that way as well. The amount of fat, carbohydrates, salt, calcium, antioxidants, protein, etc, will all vary between dogs, and vary as they age. The only way to do this safely is to consult a veterinary small animal nutrition specialist, and work with them to formulate a diet, and review it regularly.

I know people used to feed their dogs god only knows what, and they did ok, but dogs are now living longer and longer. The average livespan for a dog was once 10 years. My neighbour's dog just had her 19th birthday, and she's still chirping. The aim is to keep them healthy and disease free. This requires a diet that is properly formulated, with nutrients and minerals they can access and use, that matches their lifestyle need.

 

[Kitah]

PM sent Slim6y

 

[phantomreptiles]

My bad, I meant if you have to feed a bone (I disagree), as a treat or for dental health.
This was at firedrake

 

[camspeed]

Dogs eat dog biscuits and meat, pretty easy really. Can't understand these people who cook up special din dins for their little darlings.

 

[dangles]

I recommend speaking to a few breeders that have Champion quality dogs as to wat they feed. I know a couple from when i was looking at staffies and rotties that only ever fed dry and their dogs were in awesome condition. At the same time i saw some breeders that fed raw, tbh i couldnt pick it for the life of me when it came down to looks.

I have a recipe here somewhere for raw that consists of chicken/veges/garlic a few diff oils and some pasta that we got from the breeder when we got our staffy. Doesnt cost a great deal to make up either

 

[snakeynewbie]

Further to what dangles just said I'm a big fan of Coprice dog food. It is aussie owned and is reommended by many greyhound racers, i figure. If you can race a greyhound on it then it cant be too bad! I found my dogs always looked very well on this as their main diet and i ran it through one of those comparison point score things and it came out pretty much on par with eukanuba which i was pretty happy with at $35 for 20kg!. Not sure ifyou can get it in NZ though.

 

[slim6y]

Thanks for all your comments - we have some strong advocates for the 'fresh food' and some strong basis for the biscuits.

All in all - it is individual - and I personally believe - give the best you can afford for your pets - which is what I did for the snakes and what I'll do for the dog too.

He is happily eating watered biscuits at the moment. I'll continually monitor his health and weight (I live in walking distance to the vet).

My main thoughts were backed up by those about dog roll - it can be a 'McDonalds' treat from time to time or when giving worming tablets.

Thanks again for your replies

 

[Jay84]

Dogs eat dog biscuits and meat, pretty easy really. Can't understand these people who cook up special din dins for their little darlings.

Dogs will eat most things that a human will eat too..... doesn't mean it's good for them. Pretty poor argument you have there lol

You can feed your kids Maccas and Pizza Hut every meal too. Or you can prepare a healthy meal as this is obviously better for them.......

 

[Pazzy]

My dad races greyhounds so i get chicken mince from him and dog biscuits called woofbix and a couple of fish oil tablets a night and the dogs love it..

 

[Kimberlyann]

We make up a huge thing of pasta with either all our left overs in it or a can or two of food, add some garlic, eggs and some sauce just for taste and biskits during the day

 

[ditch]

Not as sure this will work in NZ, but we sometimes freeze up the hills bikkies in a small plastic bag with water and give them to the dogs like big icy poles to lick and chew during the day.

We always like to mix it up with different things with the bikkies as well as just having non bikkie dinners too. We don't go near the dog rolls, but if you have the time to make up meatballs from mince (we use human grade), rice or pasta and veggies. When/if I cook veggies to go into their food, I don't like to cook them much (still crunchy). Usually I leave the carrots raw because they love to munch on them and it's good for their teeth.

Occassionally we will put tinned sardines under the bikkies. The smells makes them munch through the bikkies looking for that juice. Don't give them sardines or tuna too often though because of the levels of mercury in these oily fish.

Chicken necks are a winner, but with puppies they can sometimes gobble them up too quickly and almost choke on them.

 

[glassless_mind]

Just a note on feeding food for greyhound racers to pet dogs - this food is likely to have far too much energy and protein in it for a pet dog's requirements. A greyhound in full training and racing will be burning off far more energy than an average pet who goes for a half hour walk every day.

The important part about feeding a dog is to feed it appropriately for its age and requirements. Feeding food for greyhounds to a labrador, for example, is far in excess of their requirements and can lead to health problems.

 

[KaotikJezta]

I find it interesting that the AVA's major financial sponsor is Hills and Hills is the dogfood most recommended by vets, hmmm. In fact major dog food companies are influential in all areas of animal nutrition training and practice, it is after all a multi million dollar industry and I can't recall health and well being ever being more important than profit to corporations.

An example:

Sponsors - Veterinary Science Foundation - The University of Sydney

 

[Bel03]

Just a note on feeding food for greyhound racers to pet dogs - this food is likely to have far too much energy and protein in it for a pet dog's requirements.

Just wondering, were u referring to the 'woofbix' comment when you wrote this? Cause if so, woofbix are actually a really cheap dog biscuit.......you pay something like $10 for a 20kg bag from Big W.......i havent used them, so im not sure what they are like, but i imagine they are just like most other brands out there.

 

[cwebb]

my dane mastiff was so scrawny as a pup, cos i was feeding him crappy cheap biscuits. so i splurged and started him on eukanuba and then advance and the difference was astonishing. he filled out and got really bulky. really top notch stuff i strongly recommend, very expensive but does go a long way.
diesel also gets veges, grated carrot and broccoli stalks, chicken necks and legs, chicken carcasses and massive cow bones from the butcher.
i give diesel eggs all the time, makes his coat shiny. its important to give them the shell as well as it balances out the protein and adds calcium. people who say raw eggs are bad can believe that, but i disagree. out cattle dog has been getting raw eggs a few days a week for 11 years, and diesel now for a whole year and they are extremely healthy and have never been sick (touch wood). experts will tell you raw MEAT is bad for dogs, but i doubt dogs cook it up in the wild haha?
as you can see, diesel is a mega babe of a dog, because he has a fabulous diet and plenty of exercise good luck with your poochie and try eukanuba or advance!!

 

[glassless_mind]

Just wondering, were u referring to the 'woofbix' comment when you wrote this? Cause if so, woofbix are actually a really cheap dog biscuit.......you pay something like $10 for a 20kg bag from Big W.......i havent used them, so im not sure what they are like, but i imagine they are just like most other brands out there.

Yes and no, I was referring to the people who talked about using Coprice dog biscuits because it's what is fed to racing greyhounds, who need a much higher energy level than your average pooch.

Some friends and I did a complete nutritional study on a greyhound racing and breeding farm once. They were feeding the cheapest dog biscuits they could buy from the shop, whatever was on sale at the time, as well as the skeletons from chicken carcasses.
Needless to say his greyhounds weren't doing very well. They didn't run very well, and he had constant problems with stomach upsets in his dogs, from changing their diet all the time.

Like I said, some supermarket brands may be ok, but do your research if you really want to know, and work out which nutrients the dogs can ACCESS. If the nutrients are in a form they can't use (which is way cheaper), then there's no point feeding it to them, you'll just lead to nutrient deficiencies.

There is such a huge variation in price because there is such a huge variation in ingredients.

Personally, I would feed Hills to a dog until it was fully grown, then feed a cheaper dog food, possibly mixed in with a better quality one.
Hills may sponsor the AVA, but so far in four years of vet we've had one talk from them, and they gave me a textbook on clinical nutrition. Not exactly brainwashing all vets to feed Hills.
The other companies are drug companies. Some I haven't even heard of, yet they're a "major sponsor". Bayer gave us a night at their factory once, when reps from many differnet animal product companies were there, and we got a tour through their factory and a free anatomy poster... so obviously the major sponsors are what we're going to promote when we're out in practice, because we'd never try anything else for ourselves or analyse the results. We'd definetely take what we got from 1 lecture and tell it to every client for the rest of our practicing lives...

Sorry, but it isn't reality.
I like Hills because they are the ONLY dog food company who tests their food on live dogs and measures the effects over time. This will detect long term deficiencies and excesses. Nothing else will.