egg trouble,.. :(

[Chris1]

THis is my first year of dealing with eggs (amyae) and i seem to be doing something wrong.

for the second time 1 egg of the pair is collapsing really badly starting about 2 weeks before the hatch date, not just dints, but to look like a stepped on flat football.

yesterday i got 1 healthy hatchy and within the day the other egg had grown lots of mould spots that seemed to have come from nowhere, the previous egg that didnt hatch didnt go mouldy, but when i cut it open there was a fully formed dead hatchy.
i cut the current 'bad' egg open this morning, it doesnt smell dead yet, but there was no movement so im not really expecting it to hatch, but figured id give it another couple of days anyway.

for future reference, is there anything i can do once i notice the egg start to collapse?
they are collapsing so badly im partially convinced that the bubs are getting squished to death,....

i put another couple of eggs into the incubator last week so im hoping i can get the pair to hatch,..with the help of you kind and experienced folk!

so,...im using vermiculite in sealed siestma tubs (the ones that hold half a sandwich size)
airing daily, wiping lids every second day.

i dont know the exact humidity but it is high enough to need to wipe lids every second day.

temps have been at around 30-31, but the day before hatching they were 32.7, but even at that high a temp the good egg still hatched.

the incubator is just a foam box with a heat mat covered in sand, im using a cake rack to suspend the tubs so its getting even temps, not cooking on the bottom or anything.

last egg that hatched was at 60 days, this egg hatched at 62 days.

sooo, have i left anything out?
and can anyone tell me why 1 egg is hatching beautifully and the other isnt,....

just as a side note, this is thier first year of breeding too, and i have heard they may lay slugs, but these eggs arent slugs since there are fully formed babys dying in them.

could it have anything to do with the mums not geting enough nutrition before laying?
(not that i think they dont, they get crix/roaches and freshly shed superworms covered in calcium and a couple of hours of late sun on the weekends,...)

thanks in advance for any replies, i'll be at work soon and unable to check back for a while, but i'll be back on this arvo,..

 

[dickyknee]

What mix of vermiculite and water are you using ?

My levis eggs will often deflate just prior to hatching ...
The current egg , did it grow a fungus type mould or just little grey dots on the egg ?

 

[Chicken]

i'd say due to the lid having to be wiped of condensation every 2 days, and the mould would show too much moisture and humidity in the tub. Use a 1:1 vermiculite and water substrate for the eggs, thats what i've been told, and read.

 

[buck]

I use a 60:40 ratio for Amyae. Better to be a little drier and add a little moisture if needed than to have the mix too wet. I also incubate at 28.5degC. Every fertile egg that has been laid has hatched.

 

[AUSGECKO]

I also incubate most gecko eggs at 28.5, if the temperature in my gecko incubator goes much higher than this for extended periods, my hatch rate drops significantly.

 

[Chris1]

thanks very much for all the replies!

Dicky, im not sure what ratio it is, it was 50/50 when i first put them in, but with all the lid wiping ive been spraying the sides of the tub to replace the moisture so it doesnt dry out since i figured the first egg may have collapsed due to it being too dry.
the bad egg didnt collapse till 2 weeks ago, long after i knew the exact ratio of water to vermiculite.

the mould is a greeny colour, and in patches, but spreading fast, i expect the egg will be totally green/grey by the time i get home. Are funguses the ones that stick out? (im imagining the orange and white raised blobs that grow on dead logs in damp places) if so, its just mould, not fungus. (and the tub smells mouldy, it did slightly a few days before th patches appeared, but the actual visible patches appeared within the space of a day.

Reptilerookie - the first one that collapsed didnt get a wipeable amount of condensation by the second day, which is why i upped the moisture this time, i dont think its the mould killing things, but the fact that the eggs are collapsing. (ie, the last one didnt grow any mould at all, but started to stink a day after i cut it open (2 days after its partner egg had hatched)

so Buck, and geck82, i will drop the incubation temps to 28.5 since thats a fair bit lower than 30-31, can you tell me what the expected incubation time should be?
i get a bit worried by day 60 and will feel better knowing approx what date they will hatch,..!

thanks again for all the help, im looking forward to your replies!!

C.

 

[GeckoJosh]

I have also had shocking results with my eggs lately and I blame it on not being able to keep the temps cool enough in the hot weather and also fluctuating temps.
I hope now Iv figured out the issue a new incubator of higher quality will make all the difference

 

[dickyknee]

Hey Chris , it sounds like your tubs are all ready to wet if you are having to wipe the lids , adding the extra water will be doing more harm than good and I'd say is most likely the cause of the problems you are having with mould .
A 50/50 or 60/40 mix should see you threw the incubation period with out any extra water needed.

 

[buck]

From memory my last Amyae eggs hatched at 73 days. Start to stress and check daily at around day 70.

 

[CodeRed]

31.5 deg is perfectly fine. Ive done nearly 30 clutches at that temp. Just remix the vermiculite with less water and you'll be fine

 

[kupper]

I find incubating with perlite helped combat the mould and fungus as it seems to stay dryer

 

[GeckoJosh]

I use a 60:40 mix and I have found Iv need to wipe the lids, the reason for the extra condensation is again the temperature fluctuation, but in your case it may be the ratio

 

[Radar]

I've been using sphagnum moss (either bought damp in a sealed bag or run under the tap with excess water squeezed out) and having great results, something like 20 clutches sofar have hatched, the rest look great and even eggs that looked like total slugs when laid have hatched to be healthy. My incubator is regularly at 30, ambients in the house reach 31 for 8 hours a day many days and hasn't seemed to affect it, they just hatch fast-ish.

 

[Chris1]

ok, i turned it down almost 1 degree last night (was 30.1 this morning) and around another degree this morning, so i'll double check tonight but temps should be between 28.5 and 29.

the substrate really isnt wet, i dont start replacing water till the lid isnt well fogged by teh second day, generally just a couple of times starting after about 30 days, and then its just a light mist around the sides of the tub, and the eggs never look wet or sweaty.

i was more vigilant this time with making sure there was a decent fog cos i thought the other had died due to dehydrating, so that could well be the reason for teh mould this time. (but the healthy egg didnt show any mould at all, not even after the empty shell lay next to the mouldy egg for a day,...weird!!)
but i'll stick the probes in the actual tub tonight and work on humidity readings and stop adding water.

this is the first egg thats gone mouldy, well, first 'fertile' egg.

(the very first 2 Nyoko laid were infertile, but since i didnt candle them i waited for 110 before cutting them open to find they were totally empty except a thin layer of dried yolk or whatever) those eggs developed a couple of spots around day 85 but they were far from covered by the time i cut them open 3 weeks later, nothing like these ones.

i pulled the bad egg out this morning and peeled it open since the whole thing was now green.

the similarities between this egg, and the last dead one that wasnt mouldy were the contents were dry and rubbery, this time was worse with the sack literally glued to the baby.


the healthy egg that hatched was still wet inside and the bloody looking part still felt meaty, and the shell was alot softer.

now the thing thats totally baffling me is these eggs were literally stuck togehter from teh time i found them in the sand and i didnt even try and seperate them sisnce i didnt want to damage the eggs.
how can 2 eggs that are touching/under identical conditions turn out so differently? TWICE!!? (well, the first time they were an inch apart cos they werent stuck)

heres a terrible pic of the first egg that collapsed 2 weeks before it was due to hatch, sorry its so dark but it gives you the general idea.
the one shown collapsed from the top, the latest one did the same but sucked in from the bottom, same time frame of 2 weeks beofre hatch date,....

has this happened to any of you guys? or what do the eggs that havent made it look like for you?
do you think the gecko is dying 2 weeks prior to hatching and thats the reason the egg collapses?
or the collapsing of the egg kills the baby?
they havent smelt off,...but by the time i investigate the contents are quite hard.

thanks again for all the advice, oh and my temps have been totallly stable.

damiit, having pic troube, ill post this then try again

pic

 

[dickyknee]

Chris , looking at that pic your tub is way to wet IMO ... I would suggest you do drier mixes and don't add any extra water through out the entire incubation process and see how you go.
I have never had any moisture build up on the lids / sides of any of my geckos , there is some times a very small piece of fog on the front facing the glass door on the incubator , all hatch out perfectly fine at 31.5 , 50/50 mix with a small pile of perlite for the eggs to sit in .

Never had any gecko eggs stick together so cant help with that one ...

 

[Chris1]

THanks Dicky, i'll find some perlite on the weekend and move the 2 week old eggs to a drier tub.
i'll also put a hole in the tub and stick the probe in to keep an eye on humidity,...80-100% right?

maybe i read that snake egg tubs are meant to go foggy and just assumed geckos were the same, or is that wrong too?

i'll try it ur way, ive got nothing to lose since my way is killing things.

should i raise the temps back to 31.5 too then,...?

 

[AUSGECKO]

I use completely sealed containers so there is no need to add any water throughout incubation and the only time it gets opened is to get a hatchie out.

 

[Chris1]

oh, so no daily airing then?

im moving my 2 week old eggs to drier vermiculite tonight and setting the inc at 30, halfway between the 2 preferred temps.

im hoping fro very little condensation and will try to not open the containers unless something is looking wrong from the outside,...(the containers are fully sealed)

thanks Geck!

i'll make sure i update this thread once BOTH my eggs hatch to thank you all again!

 

[pythonmum]

Chris - I have a bag of perlite left from my efforts. Come over and get it this evening if you would like to try that. I hope the next couple BOTH hatch!

 

[Chris1]

thanks Susan, that would be fantastic!!

is 8.30 too late? if it is, can i come tommorrow?

(sorry, got a critter being dropped off for babysitting tonight, should be well and truely sorted by 8.30 tho)