F10 Vs VETKLEEN

[johnnyeggbeater]

Heres a few simple comparisons - F10, made in another country imported, meaning the money leaves Australia.
Vetkleen - Made here in Australia by Australians, this means all money is kept in Australia and the cost to make and sell is lower.

You can buy Vetkleen for less then the cost of F10 and it is the exact same product.

If you want some more information please PM me or e-mail my work e-mail and i will send you some more information on the product.

[email protected]

Why not use a great product for a respectable price?

Chris Pennisi.

 

[jdonly1]

How do they compare price wise??

 

[Slytherin]

Emailed you for more info. Thanks for letting us know. I'm interested to find out more.

 

[Scaler]

Emailed you for more info. Thanks for letting us know. I'm interested to find out more.

Ditto

 

[buttss66]

I thought I'd do a bit of research to see if Vetkleen had been proven safe for reptiles and I came across this:
http://www.apvma.gov.au/gazette/0803downloads/p18_productsuspension.pdf
Could you throw some light on the subject Chris?
Has the product been redeveloped?

 

[jdonly1]

Same here

 

[Troyster]

I thought I'd do a bit of research to see if Vetkleen had been proven safe for reptiles and I came across this:
http://www.apvma.gov.au/gazette/0803downloads/p18_productsuspension.pdf
Could you throw some light on the subject Chris?
Has the product been redeveloped?

Good to know although the linked document is a little vague but i think i would stick to what i know so ill continue to use F10 i think

 

[johnnyeggbeater]

Vetkleen

This is all the information i have on the products at this point in time i am getting more,

 

[johnnyeggbeater]

Vetkleen

Heres one more bit of information, this was all given to me by the manufacture company.

 

[johnnyeggbeater]

Vetkleen

Vetkleen is now available and is fully licenced to be sold. If you would like to try or to know some priceing please e-mail me [email protected]


Regards Chris.

 

[ChemicalEssentials]

G'day all,

Those who know me know that I am the distributor for F10 in Australia. I'll let our reputation speak for itself in terms of product quality, perfomance and previous posts and advice.

Regarding Vetkleen - this product is an attempted copy of F10, it is not identical, despite what the manufacturer and any of their distributors may claim. The product was registered by APVMA in 2007 and then suspended for 1 year for being "not efficacous" (see here http://www.apvma.gov.au/gazette/0803downloads/p18_productsuspension.pdf ). After serving out the 1 year suspension the product has been reregistered with, as far as anyone can see, no changes barring basic bactericidal tests being performed on it (surely removal of colourant can't make a non effective product work all of a sudden...) So while Vetkleen goes to the extent of making exactly the same claims at the same dilution rates and contact times, it is completey untested against most bacteria and all viruses, fungi, spores etc. In addition, no safety or toxicity testing has ever been performed on this product. As such, claims replicating F10SC’s performance and safety are completely unfounded. Their product label and most of their literature has been lifted directly from our marketing material, simply with "Vetkleen" substituted for "F10".

In general we would always recommend that all product claims made by disinfectant manufacturers are supported by full testing documentation from independent and accredited laboratories as is the case with F10SC Veterinary Disinfectant.

Of course everyone is free to choose whatever they want to use with their reptiles, but like the old saying goes, “if it seems too good to be true it probably is”...

Always happy to discuss further if anyone is interested.

Andrew Chalmers
Chemical Essentials Pty Ptd
[email protected]

 

[method]

pwned

 

[shamous1]

Product Choice

I think it's great to have product choice and obviously there appears to be some good information provided here in the previous posts.

What scientific tests has VetKleen been set. I'm not taking sides by any means here but it appears that whilst one side looks very well informed the other side might require their people to provide some proof of any relevant tests as the proof might just appear to be in the pudding.

 

[johnnyeggbeater]

Vetkleen

Andrew, I am not some one to put my reputation on the line if I didn't have facts.

The simple truth of the matter is yes Vetkleen’s registration was suspended for 12 months, a fact that we have never denied. During the 12 month hiatus the manufacturing procedures were changed & the product was tested numerous times, here in Australia to Australian standards by a large international testing laboratory. These test results were forwarded to the APVMA (Australian Pesticide & Veterinary Medicines Authority), on reviewing these results the APVMA revoked our suspension. To my knowledge F10Sc has its credentials from testing authorities in South Africa, and the testing standards there.

Vetkleen is not here to argue with F10 about who’s product is better, only to give the consumers a verity. F10 will always have its loyal customers that like paying high prices for the name, Vetkleen offers an alternative by keeping the same high quality disinfectant, while keeping all the money here in Australia supporting Australia's economy.

Chris Pennisi.

 

[snakehandler]

We only us F10 as it has a clear and proven record in many other areas other than reptiles. We also breed dogs and use F10 to ensure we do not get problems such as parvo. Can you provide examples of agencies that use VETKLEEN?

Your thread started as F10 v's VETKLEEN, so it is a thread to compare products, I need more information before I am willing to switch, so please Chris understand that I want to make a fully informed decision before I switch. can you provide data as to the effectivness of the product, just as I have been able to get with F10.

 

[ChemicalEssentials]

G'day all (again),

Chris, without getting into a boring and "he said she said" discussion, the fact of the matter is that the product you are promoting is not the same as F10 (which is a far more complex formulation than just the 2 main actives), and is thus untested against all but the most basic bacteria. So how you can claim things like parvovirus kill with even the vaguest confidence is beyond me. Plus zero safety/toxicity data so how on earth can you assure reptile users of the safety of their reptiles?

However, free choice to all and time will tell.

Cheers,

Andrew Chalmers

 

[johnnyeggbeater]

Vetkleen

This information was provided by Vetkleen after going through the process of registering the product.

Andrew it was with immense interest that I read your comments re the formulation of your F10Sc.
According to the records of the APVMA the ONLY actives in your formula are those listed which are the same as the Vetkleen Veterinary Disinfectant. I am sure the APVMA would be most interested if your company has not informed them of all the actives used in your product. As you should also be aware the APVMA also looks at the entire formula of products claiming to be closely similar to registered products, Vetkleen passed this scrutiny. You may be aware that there are other companies also using the same actives and promoting the same efficacy claims. It would appear out of this whole scenario that your major concern is your anticipated loss of market share for a product.

The following is taken directly out of the APVMA’s registration guidebook.

AG Manual Category 26 (Pre-morag)

NEW PRODUCT – Similar to a registered product.

This category is for a product whose formulation is closely similar to that of an agricultural chemical product currently registered in Australia (the reference product).
The proposed product must closely match the composition & functional features of the reference product in the following ways:
• The active constituent(s) should be the same, have the same isomer, sub-unit or polymorph ratio and be in the same concentration (ie within + or – 5% of that of the reference product);

• The non-active constituents should be very similar in composition and proportions, and should have similar toxicological characteristics (for example, changing from ionic to non-ionic surfactant would not be acceptable);

• The use patterns and warning statements and other recommendations on the label should be the same;

• The product should be targeted at the same user group and have similar pack sizes and types.

Chris you can see by the above that according to the information given to the APVMA by Andrew’s company Vetkleen is regarded as closely similar & we must use the same claims as F10Sc.

Should your require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Chris Pennisi.

Vetkleen - Cleaning up.

 

[ChemicalEssentials]

Nice try at deflection Chris, looks like you are as adept at spin as the manufacturer. The APVMA is well aware of F10's full formulation, the reason its not fully disclosed to anyone but regulatory bodies is for exactly this reason - knockoffs making the same claims.

And in terms of disclosure, you weren't so keen to mention Vetkleen's registration was suspended for a year due to it "not being efficacous" (to quote the APVMA) until Troyster brought it up on 29 April, thus demanding an answer. And I don't see how "changing the manufacturing procedures" will make a non-effective product suddenly effective.

Back to the real issue though - can you actually show the forum members any real data from testing performed on Vetkleen - not marketing material, not "tests have been performed on the actives in Vetkleen", but real data on the actual product? Answer - no! This is what you seem to fail to understand.

By the way - F10 has been tested all around the world, on 5 continents actually. The backhanded comment of yours re testing in South Africa is unfounded, and regardless of that, all testing there is from world class facilities that are fully independent and accredited to international standards.

Chris, you're clearly getting all your info from the manufacturer. I don't know you at all but I'd suggest your knowledge of disinfectants and biosecurity is about as good as mine is in woodshavings and cat litter products, which seems to be the business you're in. I don't hold it against you for trying to sell a product, but surely by now you must be thinking "Am I right about this stuff?"

Ciao,

Andrew

 

[Twin_Rivers]

a fight about disinfectant ......... at least it is a clean fight

 

[ChemicalEssentials]

LOL nice one...