Former Prime Minister

[cris]

Liberal is better than labor, its a well known fact, no point debating it. Its not the sort of thing that is purely opinion

 

[horsesrule]

Liberal is better ? lol Thats not a fact and history proves that.

Who is better depends on what values you have.

Howard screwed the country though thats a clear fact !

One other clear fact is the working class of Australia is always better of under Labor than Liberal.

If your upper class you are much better off under Liberal.

 

[cris]

Liberal is better ? lol Thats not a fact and history proves that.

Who is better depends on what values you have.

Howard screwed the country though thats a clear fact !

One other clear fact is the working class of Australia is always better of under Labor than Liberal.

If your upper class you are much better off under Liberal.

The funny thing is im joking and i dont think you are.

 

[horsesrule]

Nope im not.

By the way look at the high tax bracket cuts Howard gave in his time as PM.

Howard reduced the rate of tax for the highest bracket and doubled the income amount.

Meanwhile anyone on less than 30 thousand got bugger all.

And to all you reptile lovers in this forum remember Howard did very little to protect native wildlife from deforestation and habitat destruction.

 

[jessb]

Liberal is better than labor, its a well known fact, no point debating it. Its not the sort of thing that is purely opinion

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[pinkmus]

An unelected person kicked out someone chosen by the people..twice in fact after an early election that Whitlam called to gain majority in the senate....well School certificate is over might as well forget it all...

 

[Schlumpe]

Perhaps Goff should of done the HAROLD HOLT.

 

[horsesrule]

Dont suppose anyone know where he was doing the book signing? lol

Ill be there.

 

[cris]

Perhaps Goff should of done the HAROLD HOLT.

Yeah it would have been a good way to start his political career :lol:

 

[horsesrule]

With some of the views here its clear how Howard was PM for so many years.

I wish they taught Politics and history of Australian Politics in high school.

 

[mattmc]

An unelected person kicked out someone chosen by the people..twice in fact after an early election that Whitlam called to gain majority in the senate....well School certificate is over might as well forget it all...

Thank god for that, i stuffed up my CIVICs today, spent half the time day dreaming about......errrrm...anyways
I think i missed out on the time when popcorn is free

My personall views, all governments are skrewed......Vote Mattmc For PM :lol:

 

[Schlumpe]

PM Howard was only in it to get the good seats at the Cricket.
LOL

 

[alex_c]

pretty much the same as Jimmy Carter being viewed as the greatest US president by Democrats:lol:

 

[The Devil]

Liberal is better ? lol Thats not a fact and history proves that.

Who is better depends on what values you have.

Howard screwed the country though thats a clear fact !

One other clear fact is the working class of Australia is always better of under Labor than Liberal.

If your upper class you are much better off under Liberal.

So you are saying that the country and people were better off under Hawk/Keating than they were under Howard.

Well with interest rates of up to 19% I guess that the banks would agree with you.
Not sure about the many thousands of people who couldn't meet the high loan repayments and lost their homes, they may disagree.

 

[horsesrule]

Nope i wasnt a fan of Hawke or Keating but they did have to deal with the stock market crash of the 80s as well as other financial issues.

I can tell you i know at least a dozen people who are financially worse off and unemployed because of Howard.

And at least back under Keating you could easily:

Find a doctor who bulk billed
Get cheaper education
Get cheaper medications
Get better welfare
Have a shower without worrying about water
Have a safe job
Afford petrol and food

I could go on but yeah im sure you get my point Howard was not good and anyone who thinks he was should pay a visit to some working class suburbs.

 

[Dipcdame]

(Something to do with the Khemlani affair which would have proved highly successful in dragging the country out of the former governments mess!!!)

Surely you are joking, the loans affair was in late 1974 and into early 1975. Geoff had been in power for 2 years, and you still think he was trying to clean up the former govs "mess"

That's a bit like Kevin blaming John for the things that are happening now or in a year or 2's time.

The Labor government in late 1974 was desperate for money, they had virtually drained the "bank" dry. It was about July/August 1975 before this affair was put to rest.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, you really should do your research before you post stuff like this!!!!!!! Ever read history books????

a two minute search on wikipedia gave me this::

During 1975, the Whitlam Government attempted to raise a loan of approximately US$4 billion. The money was supposed to be used to fund a number of natural resource and energy projects, including construction of a natural gas pipeline, the electrification of interstate railways and a uranium enrichment plant. This was alleged to be illegal on the grounds that it bypassed the requirement of authorisation by the Loans Council which was then enforced.

The Minister for Minerals and Energy, Rex Connor, Treasurer Dr. Jim Cairns, and others, were prime identities in the scandal.

The loan was sought from the Middle East and not European or American sources because the Middle East at the time was awash with "petrol-dollars", as the price of oil quadrupled between 1973 and 1974. A Pakistani broker, Tirath Khemlani, was used by Connor to secure the loan. In the end, however, no loan was ever obtained, and the scandal did much to tarnish the Whitlam Government's reputation.

Progression after its leak

A special one-day sitting of the Australian House of Representatives was held on 9 July 1975, during which the then Prime Minister of Australia, Gough Whitlam tabled the documents containing evidence about the loan and sought to defend his government's position.

Beset by economic difficulties at the time and the negative political impact which the Loans Affair conjured, the Whitlam Government was very vulnerable to further assaults on its credibility. Gough Whitlam was prompted to sack Dr. Cairns from his cabinet.

Aftermath

Although Rex Connor's authority to seek an overseas loan was withdrawn following leaking of the scandal, he continued to liaise with Khemlani. The "Herald" Newspaper based in Melbourne published documents confirming this and Connor was forced to resign from the cabinet. He was replaced by the future Prime Minister, Paul Keating.

The loans affair embarrassed the Whitlam government and exposed it to claims of impropriety. The Malcolm Fraser-led Opposition used its numbers in the Senate to block the government’s budget legislation in an attempt to force an early general election, citing the loans affair as an example of ‘extraordinary and reprehensible’ circumstances. Whitlam refused, and this led to the Australian constitutional crisis of 1975.

Would you like any more in this history lesson??

 

[Wild_Storm]

Well, I am going to throw my two-bob's worth in... Personally yes Whitlam DID do SOME good things... I am sure ALL PM's do... Yes he did do some BAD things too, I am sure. HOWEVER, I doubt any of us can change history (IF you can, I want to borrow your time machine thanks! ) so as interesting a debate as it makes, it is kind of pointless. I am not a Labour supporter, however I know people that will tell you Labour is the ONLY government to have in... I don't really think I am a Lib's supporter either, OR a Nationals either!!! BUT I will say this- for every good thing they do, they do bad too. A perfect example- Salt-water Crocodiles... Years ago there was a HUGE outcry- Save the Croc from extinction... Now years later they are FURTHER in land than EVER before, threatening the Cattle & Tourist Industry... Bob Katter (who is probably my only favourite Politician!!) wants to do a cull, but every one else says no... Go figure!?!?!

Politics is the worst topic ever.... You can't find two people to agree on all subjects it raises!!!

 

[Dipcdame]

Wild storm, I agree.......... what was it? Religion, s*x, politics are the three main subjects to avoid like the plague!!!!!!!!

It matters not what ACTUALLY happened, it all depends on which side of the fence you're on as to one's personal view of what happened. I was a teenager at that time, and the elections that saw Freser get iin were the first I actually voted in!!!!! My dad and I talked at great length on the events at that time, I learned an awful lot from that man, he was well-read on many subjects.

I odn't firmly believe that the Labour party is THE party to have in now, time has created a degree of cynicism with me, (although Mr Rudd doesn't seem to be doing too bad at the moment, we'll see, jury's still out), as far as I'm concerned, all politicians are crooks, and the only time ANY of them are not lying is when their mouths are shut!!!!!! Doesn't matter WHO they are!!! I watch Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister on Foxtel avidly, it's classic!

There will never be a general concensus on this subject, whatever government it's about!

OH, and I'm taking Mattmc's advice..............I'LL VOTE FOR HIM NEXT TIME!!!!! lol

 

[Forensick]

really, how much attention can you pay to someone who seems to think we had a PM in the 70's called geoff...

is he related to that bum James we had recently?


and i laugh so hard whenever someone brings up 19% interest rates....
only one labor man lost an election over interest rates....... latham

you will find keating won the election following the interest rate high....

and eitherway, no one discussing interest rates in those terms seem to understand what they mean....

high = good economy
low = bad economy

so according to the reserve bank, economy was stronger in real growth terms under hawke/keating than howard

 

[moosenoose]

I would be able to forgive all his mistakes for the one good act of keeping you out of a senseless war.

Not entirely senseless IMO. We're very good at doing nothing usually!

I get tired of hearing the same senseless rot about a war for oil. Hussein made his own bed when he refused UN weapons inspectors the access that was drawn up after the first Iraqi conflict.

But, in hindsight, I think the Iraqi people were left in safer hands under an abusive, murderous dictatorship! Quite clearly Iraq is finding it hard coming to grips with their new-found freedom. If they had prospered under a new government without the tribal violence that keeps erupting over there, we’d ALL have had no further involvement other than removing Hussein and his goon-squad!

There is nothing senseless about attacking a country when the leader of such murders hundreds of thousands of people, torments their neighbours with chemical weapons and then torments a gutless UN with threats of already having WMD’s in their possession! I can’t stand tools who think the US marched in simply because they were experiencing an oil shortage! Bring out all the leftist propaganda and bull#$#@ that flows all over the internet, but common sense suggests quite clearly it wasn’t the basis of this latest attack.

And no, I’m not suggesting for one moment the US has always been an untouchable angel with their foreign policies and the like.

so according to the reserve bank, economy was stronger in real growth terms under hawke/keating than howard

Tell that to the ones who lost their homes and jobs due to Hawke & Keating fabulous policies