Handling non Identified snakes

[punisherSIX]

I dunno, I don't feel high and mighty enough to tell people what to do with there hands (and lives!) But I guess the other side is should we feel concerned of the possible damage to the snake, especially the smaller elapids?
Growing up in Victoria I introduced the idea of catching live Copperheads rather than chasing them with cricket bats to put in jars for school, I got scolded for it more than the kids killing them!

 

[Elapidae1]

Maanz good points But This thread isn't supposed to be about an individual hence the reason I started a new one rather than continue on with Woody's.
Craig tailing an Adder would be a very amateur mistake, however I was amazed how many times the thought crossed my mind during a recent photo session where the snake wasn't cooperating.
Punisher the possible damage to the snake is an important point to consider and one of the reasons people should be aware of their legal responsibilities when dealing with our native fauna.

 

[Guest]

these are not my pics (I got them from google images) but a simple example is the red naped snake a harmless and reluctant to bite species and the eastern brown which if mistaken could end your life

if you were experienced at handling large brown snakes and you misidentified a red naped snake for a brown then id say the outcome would not be too severe

but reverse the situation and take some one with little experience other than the python they keep in an enclosure at home,
now to come across a eastern brown snake and mistake it for a red naped snake because of lack of experience, and to try to handle the animal as a harmless species is a very simple but dangerous mistake
and could possibly be your last

 

[-Peter]

-Pete im in no way trying to deny others of the experiences I had growing up as a kid, but can I ask when you were a kid and you brought home a venomous snake that you didnt know what it was did everyone pat you on the back and tell you how brave you are or did they tell you you were stupid? because i still remember what they called me!
Im not denying these people of the right to do anything thats DEC's job but im not denying them the right to be told either!

I dont think my experience parallels. My parents thought all snakes were a threat so I didnt tell them about it. I had my copperhead for about 6 months before they found it. Then I had to take it to the zoo. I think the difference was that I knew what snakes were in our area but I did bring some things back with me from excursions which I would attempt to identify with my limited library and knowledge. Cogger's was printed till 1975 so an even then trying to ID a then Rhinocephalus species was not an easy job . A person who is going to go out and catch snakes will probably fast track their ID skills.
So what my original comment then bridges to is that people are going to pick up snakes with or with out experience if thats their bent and I am not going to judge them for it but there is little excuse these days to not have the literature available to check. Most of the books have colour photo's these days. The is also the Australian reptiles listing on Kingsnake though it hasn't been updated since 2007.

 

[spiderdan]

these are not my pics (I got them from google images) but a simple example is the red naped snake a harmless and reluctant to bite species and the eastern brown which if mistaken could end your life

if you were experienced at handling large brown snakes and you misidentified a red naped snake for a brown then id say the outcome would not be too severe

but reverse the situation and take some one with little experience other than the python they keep in an enclosure at home,
now to come across a eastern brown snake and mistake it for a red naped snake because of lack of experience, and to try to handle the animal as a harmless species is a very simple but dangerous mistake
and could possibly be your last

Good point the same is for hooded scaley foots. I have seen pics of a scaley foot and a young western brown and to the untrained eye you would thik they were the same thing.

 

[Elapidae1]

It is a good point and my own motto is always be 110% sure, but this thread is more for people that have experience in dealing with dangerous elapids yet aren't able to identify a species for whatever reason, Are ID skills as important as handling skills?

 

[percey39]

I believe having experience with handling is far more important than ID. If you know how to handle ven's you know how to handle ven's. Yes all species are different in regards to how they act and display/strike but you do treat all of them the same.

 

[da_donkey]

one would assume that the 2 go hand in hand, i know i studied and read a hell of alot of feild guides before i started my ven handeling and i still continue to read and look at different variations in colours and forms, no matter how repetitive the information is.

But in saying that nothing beats hands-on experience.

donks

 

[SomeGuy]

If your treating all non pythons as venomous and can handle well enough, not being able to identify them is not make much difference, most are gonna pick up venomous snakes anyway regardless of whether they can ID them or not. Everybody's gotta start somewhere, grabbing something you can't identify is dangerous and careless, but how many herpers can say they have never done that Just be careful!

 

[waruikazi]

The issue i have with the 'You have to start somewhere' excuse is that it really isn't a good enough excuse in 2010. All states and territories (except the NT) have snake handling courses that are readily and affordable.

If your treating all non pythons as venomous and can handle well enough, not being able to identify them is not make much difference, most are gonna pick up venomous snakes anyway regardless of whether they can ID them or not. Everybody's gotta start somewhere, grabbing something you can't identify is dangerous and careless, but how many herpers can say they have never done that Just be careful!

 

[waruikazi]

I'm interested please elaborate.

They literally are a slow moving mud slug but they've traded off their speed for strength. Which meant it reasonably slowly twisted back on itself with it's mouth agape heading straight for my thumb lol!

He nearly gave his mates piss pulling rights by getting bitten by a googly eyed mud slug :lol:

HA! That definately would have been the worst part!

 

[JasonL]

At the end of the day it is up to the person who is about to play with the snake as to what they should do, really all you should have extensive knowledge about is the risks involved, if the snake could possibly kill you, and how easily things can go wrong if you stuff up.

 

[Elapidae1]

The issue i have with the 'You have to start somewhere' excuse is that it really isn't a good enough excuse in 2010. All states and territories (except the NT) have snake handling courses that are readily and affordable.

It's not so much an excuse and it still stands that you do have to start somewhere A handling course was the way I had my my first contact with vens. I went into the course expecting to come out with a fairly good idea on how to deal with snakes in a callout situation and although I still believe that it was good value and informative I soon realized it was just a very small step into the world of venomous snake handling. I think I learned more on my first callout than I did at the course, though without the course I would not have had the confidence to deal with situation in the first place.

I think if your going to handle vens and you get bit it doesn't matter how experienced you are a lot of people are going to call you an idiot for handling it in the first place.