i dont know what iv been told

[TrueBlue]

ronhalling,
Im in s/e qld, not Mackay. The temps are not that much different to where you live in winter. I allow my snake room to get to below 10 degrees in winter. Do you allow yours to get that low?.
Once again with 100% confidence, heating 2/3 of a hatchie tub is absurd and ridiculous. Many people that live way farther south than you donot heat 2/3 of their hatchie tubs.
All I can say is im glad im not one of your poor hatchies.

 

[Trimeresurus]

Even 1/5th of the tub being heated with a hide ontop will be plenty for the.

 

[Lawra]

TrueBlue I'm the one in Mackay

 

[andynic07]

TrueBlue I'm the one in Mackay

From or in?

 

[Bluetongue1]

If I may, Ron is saying that the half or so of the heat mat next to the cool end gets cool air mixing with it and so os midway between the temperature at the cool end and the temperature at the end with the mat.

The range of temperatures you will get depends upon the positioning and size and number of ventilation holes in the click clack, the ambient air temperature outside it, the wattage and therefore heat given off by the matt, the amount of air space between the matt and the container, the amount of natural air flow around the container, the thickness and nature of the plastic, whether you heat mat or heat cord, what brand o heating you use (can vary despite having the same wattage) and even the size and position of the water bowel.

To put it simply, different arrangements are required for different set ups. What is important is you let it run for48 hours then hit it with heat gun. The easiest and most influential adjustment is to move the heat source until the temps are what they should be.

So despite the many varied answers, no-one is wrong!

Click-clacks are normally only placed in larger enclosures when the occupant is getting big enough to be re-housed. By leaving the lid ajar, it can get out and investigate if it wants to. If it likes it, it will stay out. If not, it will return to the click-clack.

Blue

 

[ronhalling]

If I may, Ron is saying that the half or so of the heat mat next to the cool end gets cool air mixing with it and so os midway between the temperature at the cool end and the temperature at the end with the mat. The range of temperatures you will get depends upon the positioning and size and number of ventilation holes in the click clack, the ambient air temperature outside it, the wattage and therefore heat given off by the matt, the amount of air space between the matt and the container, the amount of natural air flow around the container, the thickness and nature of the plastic, whether you heat mat or heat cord, what brand o heating you use (can vary despite having the same wattage) and even the size and position of the water bowel. To put it simply, different arrangements are required for different set ups. What is important is you let it run for48 hours then hit it with heat gun. The easiest and most influential adjustment is to move the heat source until the temps are what they should be. So despite the many varied answers, no-one is wrong! Click-clacks are normally only placed in larger enclosures when the occupant is getting big enough to be re-housed. By leaving the lid ajar, it can get out and investigate if it wants to. If it likes it, it will stay out. If not, it will return to the click-clack. Blue

Exactly, thank you Blue, sometimes when what i do is called absurb i get lost between wanting to flame the person involved and trying to describe the situation the best i can, luckily to this point the latter has come to mind first, the holes in the lids caused me the most concern as there were way too many, but i got them both from the breeder so rather than waste them i played around with the positioning of the heat mat and the hieght off the mat and what i ended up with was the compromise, with only 1/3 of the click clacks heated my spotties would not come out of their hide (hide was on mat) but as soon as i set it up as it is now they happily explored every night and begun feeding more freely. "MY" setup is "MY" setup if you don't like it TrueBlue that is your perogative but your opinion on MY setup is not needed, if you want to show your expertize to Hoppy and tell him/her how to setup his/her click clack be my guest. ...................Ron

 

[TrueBlue]

ronhalling,-
Flame away, be my guest.
The larger the temp graideint the better for any of our commonly kept snakes. They only need a small heated area to lie and get warm the rest of the tub is best left unheated to acheive this.
But it seems some people will never be able to understand this and its like banging your head on the wall trying to get them to even grasp this concept.
Have fun.

 

[andynic07]

ronhalling,-
Flame away, be my guest.
The larger the temp graideint the better for any of our commonly kept snakes. They only need a small heated area to lie and get warm the rest of the tub is best left unheated to acheive this.
But it seems some people will never be able to understand this and its like banging your head on the wall trying to get them to even grasp this concept.
Have fun.

Are you doubting that Ron has used this method and had snakes survive? I am not doubting that your method works and also is better than Ron's but you also need to realise that there is a lot of ways to get the same result. I think it is the large air gap that Ron uses between his click clack and mat that let's his method work.

 

[TrueBlue]

Not suggesting that at all.
But i can garrantee you that it is much better long term for the animals involved. Common sense really.
Look i really dont care what he does. But telling a new person to the hobby to heat 2/3 of a tub with a heat mat could easliy be a recipie for disaster. Simple as that.

 

[andynic07]

Not suggesting that at all.
But i can garrantee you that it is much better long term for the animals involved. Common sense really.
Look i really dont care what he does. But telling a new person to the hobby to heat 2/3 of a tub with a heat mat could easliy be a recipie for disaster. Simple as that.

I agree that I would suggest your way over Rons but sometimes you can come across a bit blunt and Ron meant well and he is not wrong. Many ways to skin a cat.

 

[ronhalling]

I think now might be a good time to close this thread before it gets to heated and information gets too convoluted, @ TrueBlue please go back to my original post and see that "I DID NOT" tell the OP to heat his click clack to 2/3, what i did say however is "DO NOT HEAT MORE THAN 2/3 OF THE CLICK CLACK" all else was a conversation about how my click clacks are setup, Andy was dead right in his statement about the height of the click clacks on 1/4in dowls above the heat mat not getting satisfactory heat (i was worried about air flow and possible melting of the plastic) and how it is set up now being ok. I do not know why some people have to take such a holier than though attitude about things on this forum and then try and force their ideas and ideals down other peoples throats, i think this is why a lot of new people who come here don't stay for long (i am not singling you out TrueBlue). Anyway hopefully this is the end of this one and the OP can get on with his first time Herping experience and enjoy everthing it has to offer. ......................................Ron

 

[TrueBlue]

ronhalling-,

I must appologise, your right I have no right to tell you how to keep your animals. I know you keep them with their best inerest involed and i commend you for this.
Im not motivated by money in this hoddy and have given away as many snakes as i have sold over the years, probally more. I have a true passion for my animals and go well over board sometimes because of this.
Alot of people in the hobby hate me because of my strong opinions,(especially the jagheads), and i really must pull my head in as even i think im a proper a-whole at times, most of the time infact.
Im a bit like one of those grummpy old men on the muppets, and are starting to look like them too lol.
The only group of herpers ill never apologise to are the jagheads as they just dont realise the true damage they have done to the hobby.
I know a number of old school herpers that are embarrassed to be involed in the hobby these days and dont have anything to do with the main stream herp scene, and this is a very sad thing indeed. Some of these guys have animals that most of us only dream about, and they rarely ever breed them anymore for fear of them falling into the wrong hands. sad indeed.
Anyway sorry mate as we all know there are many ways to skin a cat, ( or bag a jaghead ). lol.

 

[ronhalling]

No probs m8, it just seemed to be getting a bit personal there for awhile and that certainly is not what this forum needs at the moment, and if i came across as trying to give the OP wrong information that was not my intention, i was just telling him how mine is done and to use that plus all the other good infomation to be gleened from here and then make an informed decision. ..............................Ron

 

[Bluetongue1]

Most click-clacks will gove a maximum thermal gradient with only a third of one end heated. However, other factor can strongly influence this.

There are two bits of advice that are extremely important yet most people seem to seldom mention. The first does get mentioned but not always in full... Check your temperatures. And if they are not what they should be, adjust the heating until they are. The secondbit of advice isalmost never give. Observe your snakes and if the are perpetually at one end or the other, adjust the heating until they aremoving around.

Ron's experience is different to most. It does not make his arrangement wrong. If all had put ego aside in explaining that to him, instead of telling him he is straight out wrong, the OP would learn more - or as Andy put it, come to realise that "There is more than one way to skin a cat" when it comes to heating.

We are all here to learn.

Blue

 

[djbekz]

I agree with Bluetongue. There are so many variables that each set up will require a different amount of heat mat coverage. The best way to get it right is to do some experimentation before the snake goes in the enclosure. I think 1/3 of the enclosure is a good place to start though!

 

[andynic07]

All being said and done though I think that it is important for us newer keepers to look at the way the experienced guys do things as TrueBlue has a time tried and tested method.

 

[Bluetongue1]

From what Ron has said, the excessive ventilation on the top (and no doubt sides)required him to place the heat source under half of the click-clack. Clearly, forthe breeder he bought them from, that design was "time tried and tested".. I suspect that the breeder had rows of click-clacks in a small enclosed room. What was appropriate ventilation there, was excessive in an open room with nothing surrounding the click-clack. So there is a potential explanation of what Ron had to deal with.

Had Ron stuck religiously to the advice of experienced keepers, as put across here, his snakes would have suffered. Experienced keepers need to emphasise the desired outcomes and not just the method they use to get there. Firstly, your temperature gradient, and then ensuring this is actually suitable based on the observed behaviour of the snakes.

Something I endeavoured to do earlier was to point out the complexities of the thermodynamics of any given enclosure. Thankfully there are a couple of main factors that we can fiddle with to fine tune it... heat source and ventilation. So we need to tell newbies that this something that they are likely to have to do. What you say Andy is fine, so long as they give them the whole picture. If they do not have the experience to recognise the importance of this, then perhaps they need to qualify the advice they offer.

Djbekz put it very well I thought.

Blue

 

[TrueBlue]

To tell you the truth I never ever worry about what the temps are in any of my enclosures,(and wouldnt really know what the exact temps are), wether its a hatchie tub or an adults enclosure. As long as there is a warm area and a cool area to me its fine. I only monitor the room temp not the enclosure temps. When the room gets to 30 degrees I turn the heat off as its not needed, when the room drops to 27 degrees or so I turn the heat back on. Thats just the way I do things and It seems to work well for me. Everything feeds, breeds and I cant remeber the last time i had a sick snake.
But hey thats just me and the way I keep my animals. Like has been said, 'many ways to skin a cat'.

 

[ronhalling]

Cool now that we are sorta all on the same page i would like to offer a virtual Beer to all and say here's to years and years of more succesfull and enjoyable Herping to us all here is my 6 pack to start things off ................................Ron [] [] [] [] [] []