Live Food: Legal or Not?

[Madaz]

Places LIKE snake ranch ready slower.


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Again I Did say places LIKE snake ranch 10 to 15yrs ago. Next time I see him I'll get month, yrs how many snakes.Lol.. Hold on.. I'll remember every word he's says next time.


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[kukri-dragon]

I honestly don't care if some one feeds live food or not, i was just stating what ive read...

 

[Colin]

On the subject of live feeding, I think it has a small place in the hobby to get a hatchling to feed when all else fails, but should be used as a last resort and only for unfeeding young reptiles. All effort should be made to wean them onto freshly killed or thawed food if it's ever necessary to use a live feed to assist a hatchie when all else has failed. There's no excuse feeding yearlings or adults live feeds and the "they won't feed on anything else" is BS and a lack of understanding of husbandry techniques and lack of effort. If a hatcie takes a live pinky (when all else was tried and failed) they will usually always take a second thawed pinky immediately after it. One or two feeds like this and they are feeding on thawed or fresh killed (humanely) and there's no further need for a live feed.

Feeding captive adult reptiles live rodents is dangerous to the reptile and unecessarily cruel to the food item. And in my opinion done by sadistic people who get a "thrill" from this and like to show off to their "mates" etc. these people have little respect for life, their reptiles and no skills with acceptable husbandry methods. Unfortunately this happens far too often and education is the only answer. Freshly killed rodents offered in the correct way will almost always be taken first attempt by a snake that's supposed to only take "live" If they're fed freshly killed thats body warm and wiggled when offered with tongs there's not much difference for the snake that's supposed to only "take live" which is a load of crap in my opinion.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Madaz - do you mind me asking who is your collector mate that supplied snake ranch with their breeding stock 15 years ago?



thats a pretty cool link with your full address listed.
If you would like it removed please flag your post with the triangle icon undeneath post and ask a moderator to remove it

Snake Ranch was in receipt of a number of W/C WA reptiles AFTER the introduction of legal collecting in WA in March 2003, and JW spent time in WA with licensed collectors selecting particular animals as potential breeding stock and importing them into NSW. It wasn't 10-15 years ago. I was a dealer in WA at the time.

Jamie

 

[Colin]

Snake Ranch was in receipt of a number of W/C WA reptiles AFTER the introduction of legal collecting in WA in March 2003, and JW spent time in WA with licensed collectors selecting particular animals as potential breeding stock and importing them into NSW. It wasn't 10-15 years ago. I was a dealer in WA at the time.

Jamie

Agreed Jamie, from memory (and mine's bad) I seem to remember around 2004/5 Jim Bloomfield (legal WA collector at the time) was one of the guy's that supplied John Weigel with quite a few of the original WC stimsons & other pythons that were the original breeding stock for Snake Ranch.

 

[moosenoose]

I think It can be cruel just like the way they may kill the cow for ur quarter pounder

Who said I like to have a cow killed for my quarter pounder? I like em alive

 

[wokka]

Just because live feeding isn't written into legislation doesn't mean it is legal. I am quite sure a case could be mounted based on cruelty if necessary. That sort of action would depend upon intent and so as long as live feeding is a last resort it is probably legally safe.As for those who engauge in the blood "sport" of live feeding I am sure they cross both the legal and ethical line and deserve to be persued!

 

[Snotty]

I completely agree with there being no real reason for live feeding except in rare cases and as mentioned it is dangerous for the reptile and causes suffering for the feeder animal that is easily avoided. The problem I do have with these topics though is a logical one. For some reason there is shock and horror at the thought of feeding a live animal to another, but at the same time it is perfectly legal to use Ratsack or similar - even a spade to get rid of "vermin". For many commercial premises not doing so is actually illegal. The same issue comes up with the Fish people where the idea of using feeder fish is somehow nasty but anyone can go down the water catch a fish and well choose a hundred ways to kill it.

Personally I think Mickey Mouse and Walt Disney have a lot to answer for as there are a lot of weird ideas these days about the natural world. Rodents do not talk, watch tv from a Sardine can bed and fly on Pelicans. Pythons do not chat down at lost boys in the jungle from the tree tops, and I have never seen Crows sitting on a phone pole smoking cigars discussing politics.

 

[slim6y]

I've skim read the articles and the posts here - and I didn't see this posted:

http://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/register/p00061aa.pdf - Go straight to page 37:

The harshest and most damning comment for live feeding is:

"Under no circumstances must the feeding of live vertebrate animals be conducted as part of a public exhibition."

It does not say anywhere in this code of practice that it is illegal to feed live. In fact, it even states:

"Wild pythons usually kill their prey; however, it is preferable to feed freshly killed prey to captive pythons, as live prey has the capacity to injure, mutilate or even kill captive snakes."

"Some captive snakes need to be fed lizards or offered live prey at first but occasionally individuals will simply refuse to accept food and may require assisted feeding for a period."

So - in some cases the code actually signals that live feeding is ok.

It is also noted, if the case was to make it 'illegal' to offer live prey - then offering feeder fish etc would also be unacceptable (considering many feeder fish are vertebrates).

So - my answer - NO - it is not illegal to feed live but it is considered to be dangerous and not recommended.

I believe you can be charged if you make it a public display (the live feeding act).

 

[-Peter]

yes that was a sad day Peter. you were doing an overnight strip at Erina? :lol:
Im sure they did source reptiles from many sources for snake ranch but not 15 years ago.

I think that was the point of my observation Colin. I cant recall because this is a stale thread and my brain has moved on...

 

[Cypher69]

A long time ago I did a live feeding once. As a novice, I was given the advice that it was "healthy" for the snake to at least practice its hunting skills even in captivity.
The further advice I was given was to place the live rat (in a container) in the freezer for several hours to slow it's metabolism down...less chance of it attacking the python.

On hindsight...the size of the enclosure was a hindrance to live feeding. The python did have a clean strike on the rat however it nearly smashed the glass panel in the process.
I would tentatively suggest (based on my experience) that live feedings ONLY be done if you had an exceptionally large enclosure to provide enough room for the snake to stalk its prey safely & properly.

 

[apprenticegnome]

The only references ive managed to find that live feeding is illegal seem to come from people with personal views and no reference material to back up the claim. I hate it when people lie about something to justify their beliefs, they should say that they don't think it is ethical to live feed and state why rather than misrepresent the facts. I am against live feeding my snakes for the reasons others have stated in this thread but I understand others may need to do so with thiers. Thumbs up to those who feed frozen, respect for those who need to live feed.

 

[Colin]

I think that was the point of my observation Colin. I cant recall because this is a stale thread and my brain has moved on...

I think I recall you saying it was an "office fit out strip" Peter rather than a hen's night wearing a g-string

 

[solar 17]

l "TOTALLY" agree with Colin post no.43 of this thread ....do we really have to look up the laws governing this subject, as it is its been covered numerous times and here we have another person trying to create a head-line and "another" case where the search bar hasn't been used or another claim "l couldn't find anything" on it .......whats happened to our natural instincts as animal carers you know its morally wrong and if you say there is no option you are either a blood-hound redneck or a keeper long-short on experience IMO and yes l feed fresh killed but imo the suffering is down to a nano-second.........solar 17 (baden)

 

[PythonLegs]

l "TOTALLY" agree with Colin post no.43 of this thread ....do we really have to look up the laws governing this subject, as it is its been covered numerous times and here we have another person trying to create a head-line and "another" case where the search bar hasn't been used or another claim "l couldn't find anything" on it .......whats happened to our natural instincts as animal carers you know its morally wrong and if you say there is no option you are either a blood-hound redneck or a keeper long-short on experience IMO and yes l feed fresh killed but imo the suffering is down to a nano-second.........solar 17 (baden)

Mate, I wish there was a way I could 'like' something more than once. This needs a SuperLike.

 

[GellyAmbert]

Cap rat bag. Ur 1 of many lackin common sense. Mayb u haven't read that in a book or net so it's wrong right? So crapping, means it's finished digesting it's meal (google it)and its ready for more. Wouldn't it?? meanin if,......(each to there own) feeding that snake live prey the chances of a 1 hit strike are greatly increased. I see a lot of smart ideas and common sense being bagged on this site so I assume that's from ppl who tend to think they know more than they do,have really no clue at all or are teens and we know they know all. My advice is 2 nd hand from a mate who knows and supplied places like snake ranch with a lot of there original breeding stocks some 10yrs 15yrs ago. Most ur w.a breeds he supplied..most of these now big breeders started off with permitted wild caught snakes who were put in cages right!? So to feed the snakes what did they do?? Let them out to feed??? They waited til they shat then they knew they were ready.. I'm 35yrs of age and was given a 5ft carpet at the age of 6 1/2.. i have had taipans,r.b.blacks, and browns and at least 40odd pythons since that 1st snake.well before most of you would of been thought of and way before breeding and keeping herps was popular. I'm not one to pretend or post useless information or bag ppls views or ways but I em quite happy to bite back at those who have very narrow minds. Thank u to those who understand where I was coming from. I will add i feed my snakes frozen food but if I needed to I would feed live food to help preserve the life of any herp.

Ramsayi. My mate supplies most these big breeders eg. Snake ranches w.a black headeds, woma's with wild caught snakes on permit. So they went into cages right? Do u think they ate dead mice/ rats straight away? Or did they let the snake out in the yard to feed? I think It can be cruel just like the way they may kill the cow for ur quarter pounder over seas compared to how it's done here. Sometimes herp breeders may have to feed live food to herps. Following what I suggested takes away the cruel factor and allows the snake to follow it's natural instinct therefore preserving that reptiles life. Or would u prefer the snake to starve?


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I think its important to point out that maccas get there beef from AMH Abattoirs in QLD... not over seas...

 

[Sleazy.P.Martini]

The only references ive managed to find that live feeding is illegal seem to come from people with personal views and no reference material to back up the claim. I hate it when people lie about something to justify their beliefs, they should say that they don't think it is ethical to live feed and state why rather than misrepresent the facts. I am against live feeding my snakes for the reasons others have stated in this thread but I understand others may need to do so with thiers. Thumbs up to those who feed frozen, respect for those who need to live feed.

I think its important to point out that maccas get there beef from AMH Abattoirs in QLD... not over seas...

I think he was comparing our beef to overseas beef, not saying our beef cones from overseas

 

[-Peter]

I think I recall you saying it was an "office fit out strip" Peter rather than a hen's night wearing a g-string

Im open minded.