Memory ???

[ronhalling]

Hey all, Following on in the spirit of the thread started by longgi "Can you train snakes" ( by the way longgi that was an exceptional thread, as were the responses) what is the learned opinion or the actual experience from our members in relation to the capacity of snakes having a long term memory, not just feed reponses or location of things like basking shelves or hides, i was blown away by some of the responses that were given in the spirit of longgi's thread so i am hoping we can have the same sort of discusion on this matter. I bring this subject up not just for the hell of it but due to an experience i have recently witnessed, About 6 years ago my older nephew (for Rob's sake) had to get rid of his 6 year old Diamond/Coastal intergrade as he was committed to working away and did not think it fair on the snake to just languish in it's enclosure for a week at a time so he sold it to a guy in Wellington NSW. So just recently he got a phone call from the guy he sold it too asking could my nephew again take ownership of the snake as the guy and his wife were about to have a baby and could not afford to have such a vicious snake around the baby, this confused my nephew as from a Hatchy this intergrade had been placid and well behaved, my nephew asked how long this behaviour had been going on and apparently it had been like it ever since he received it, it was not just vicious with him it was the same with everyone that went near it, so my nephew took it back no probs and from the moment he got it out of the shipping box it was almost like a little puppy wagging it's tail and bursting out of it's skin to be picked up by my nephew, he was a little reticent to start with because of what the guy had said and the intergrade now being nearlly 9ft he did not want to get tagged, but there was no tagging no hissing or sssing, it climbed around on him like a long lost friend and did all but lick his hand, this was not the only interesting thing about the situation ie when he had the snake for the first 6 years it had a green marble water bowl but my nephew had it packed away somewhere so he was using a brand new stainless steel pet bowl the problem was it would not go anywhere near it, my nephew tried about 6 other bowls he had on hand but to no avail, finally he spent the next 3 hours going through all the stuff he had packed away and found the original marble water bowl and gave it a good clean, as soon as he put it in the enclosure the snake went straight to it and started drinking before my nephew had a chance to finish putting it in the enclosure, he rang the guy and asked had he seen Odin drinking from a bowl and the reply was she was in an aviary with a hollow in the cement floor for the water and the snake used to lay in it, there was a few more idiosyncratic habbits that it used to have which have been brought to light while Odin has been back but i think i got diarrhea of the keyboard typing this much lol. Tell us what you think or what you have experienced in relation to this thread, lets keep it friendly and informative like longgi's thread and see where it goes ..................Ron

 

[longqi]

We adopted a pretty big savage retic from a guy in Bali
It had bitten him and after that was left alone except for feeding
Kids would come past and torment it because it was outside
Everyone too scared to clean it so they used a hose
It calmed down a lot after we got it and was easily handleable
But one day a few months later the previous owner turned up
It never struck the glass before but immediately started striking repeatedly
Had to cover the glass until after he left

 

[RedFox]

Wow they are both amazing stories. I think snakes have very strong scent recognition. From my experience they are able to associate certain scents with good and others with bad. By the sound the poor rectic had a rough time with its previous owner. Knowing every time it scented him it meant that it was going to get hosed down, couldn't have being pleasant.

I don't think they retain memories like we do using all our senses and of certain events. I do think they retain some sort of "scent memory" even if they don't remember the events that lead to why something is good or bad.

 

[LaDeDah]

This reminds me of a similar story that one of the reptile keepers was telling a lady at pet barn. A man had bought a spotted python but for what ever reason a year or so later he bought it back into the shop. They don't take back animals but I didn't hear the full story or know the details. Anyway the python never struck out but when the same man came back and attempted to handle the python, it repeatedly struck out at him. So like RedFox I believe that snakes can associate to certain smells or noises.

 

[reaver]

Snake modulates constriction in response to prey's heartbeat

The part that's important to this conversation:
"Our results are the first to demonstrate that snakes use the heartbeat in their prey as a cue to modulate constriction effort and to decide when to release their prey. In response to a simulated heartbeat, snakes frequently adjusted their coils and applied periodic bursts of pressure but did not show this response while constricting rats without a heartbeat. Even snakes naive to live prey responded to the simulated heartbeat. Naive snakes also constricted rats from all three treatments with less overall effort relative to experienced snakes. Thus, our findings suggest that the ability to respond to a heartbeat is innate, whereas the magnitude of the response is guided by experience. We suggest that the capacity to improve performance through learning enable snakes to become efficient predators of variable and unpredictable prey animals.[FONT=Verdana, Lucida, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Lucida, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Even though snakes have strong survival and hunting instincts this is an example of them learning how to be more efficient killers. Since memory and learning are closely related you could argue that these snakes have remembered how to kill effectively and then used that at a much later date.[/FONT]

 

[Bart70]

Whilst I am far from an expert, in my limited experience I believe that snakes have some form of association with the past. I do not believe that it is 'memory' as we know it.......but I do believe there is something that allows them to relate to a previous experience that is not understood by us.

Some of the thoughts and examples above are indicative of this. Maybe it is linked to scent, or sound.....but I believe there is something there.

 

[longqi]

When we remember that our testing methods are designed for mammal responses
we will start to get a better understanding of other species in my opinion

We have so much to learn