MICE & RAT's

[Blake182]

So when the female gives birth put the female back with the male to get
Pregnet then back in with the young o_0
and plus I'll get soda steam I'll give it to my mum for mothers day lol
Joking

 

[Saz]

I don't remove the bucks at all, they live together constantly. Mine live in much larger colonies though, approx 3/4 bucks to 20/25 does or thereabouts in large tubs

 

[Blake182]

So I'll get 1m to 2f and just leave them in there
And now what do I do if they both get pregnant

 

[congo_python]

my super mice are in tubs that sustain 2 males to 12 females and breed like crazy.

Let them both look after the progeny and keep a few females back to continue your colony.

 

[Blake182]

Were would I be able to find some lap/ super mice

 

[Saz]

I'd get at least 4 does to one buck. They will happily raise litters together in one nest, when they get pregnant just leave them to it. They don't need antenatal classes

 

[CaptainRatbag]

Congo, he is only doing it for a short time as a school project and a bit of pocket money, so prolly just 1m and 2-3f will suit him. Mice can become pregnant again with a day old litter, I just give them a week to catch up

I have been looking the thread over and over for who said to freeze live mice? Who freezes them alive? That would be so sadistic and cruel? I suggest he gets a soda stream (he likes soda stream drinks anyway) :lol: 2 birds with same stone.

I prefer C02 euthanasia than more direct/mechanical methods (smashing or spinal dislocation) because the people I supply like the fact the rats and mice look like rats and mice..... no heads smashed or bloodie noses..... I am not into violence, even with a rat (or mouse) I hate euthanasing them, they are my little mates.... but I love my snakes and they have to eat. The rats and mice arent all here for a long time, but while they are here, they have a good time! My breeders are spoiled rotten, they (all) eat real food, not just pellets, get talked to and spoiled with treats.... they have big cages (one mother each cage, unless I am really over run) and fresh air & ventilation, they are warm and dry with clean enclosures (they get a bit messy when babies with mother as I dont clean other than spot cleaning while she is nursing) but clean before birth and on weening. In summer they have a fan and get soy milk ice blocks :shock:

I sell live rats to petshops and people wanting pets....as well as to herps for food, I have bred pet rats for eva... long before I got my snakes, it is not my favorite passtime (killing rats) actually, I dread it each time.... but like I say, snakes have to eat too.


I prefer C02 euthanasia because, the peaceful way they pass away, in my opinion, beats the last thing they experience being shock, violence and pain and I refuse to choose manual euthanasia or feeding crap food to save a few dollars. Rats and mice are each a little life..... I will not end it so violently. I dont breed them for money only, I breed to feed mine and my friends snakes, and have met new herp friends thru it.

I could half the amount of money I spend on my rats if I wanted to 'run it like a business' and scim on food and tiny little shoe box cages..... and smash thier heads in to save $9.95 for a soda cartridge that lasts a month...... I am happy to feed my snakes for free and have my friends and customers happy to return for good quality, un mutilated, inexpensive rats and I have a little cash left over to boot. I also like the fact that mothers bring thier kids to buy a pet rat, the look on the kids faces is priceless, when the kid holds a pinkie and says "look mum!" and they go home with a new pet

Edit: NO mate, once the mother has her babies, leave her with the babies.... mice CAN get pregnant when they have just given birth, But not a good idea. It is hard on them. that is why I separate the mother from the boy when she is pregnant until after the rest week (or so) A female rat or mouse's body goes thru hell growing, birthing then nurturing 6-9 babies (mice) or 12-18 (rats), so it is not a good idea to keep them getting pregnant without a little break. (ask any human mother)

People who are depending on income from breeding rodents will laugh at me for my methods, but like I said, I like rats.... but I like snakes too. I do it only to feed my snakes..... sales cover my expenditure, and allow me to spoil my rats and mice while they are here.

 

[Saz]

We don't use soda stream, because you get more control over how much c02 is in the container with a proper canister and regulator, we rent it from BOC and they do the refills too. 10% saturation to slowly knock them out, then once they're out fill it up. Much more humane. A quick smack to the head is much more humane than being frozen to death though, you'd be suprised how many people that start out think that's how they are culled. Poor flipping animals!

I've stopped breeding rats as pets for the meanwhile, too much hassle at the moment. Seems a waste sometimes considering they are 'fancy' varieties rather than just plain old hoodeds and berkshires, but the snakes don't seem to care what they look like

edit: I should probably also mention that I only breed food for my own reptiles, I don't sell any food, I don't sell to petshops as I don't agree with live animal sales in petshops and I was originally a pet breeder only (website: Rat Genetics, Husbandry, Nutrition and Breeding - Sunshine Rats) so my methods have nothing to do with 'making money'.

 

[Blake182]

Well i have this thing that I use to grow plants in my fish tamk's c02 I think
So I could use that and that has a regulator on it

 

[Saz]

I disagree re the mice constantly breeding - yes it definitely shortens their lifespan but unless you are breeding with your pets you won't be keeping them alive for the full course of their natural life anyway. In the wild mice constantly breed from 4 weeks old, its what they do. If you are feeding them quality feed and have them in a suitable environment they should have no problem at all having one litter after the next until they are about a year or so, then the breeding slows down. If your mice show signs of dropping condition/becoming sickly after a couple of consecutive litters, cull them. Only breed with the strong, and over the generations your colony will improve.

 

[congo_python]

Once again what Saz said ^^^^ and capt'rat bag your replys are too long too bother too read lol... lifes too short hehehhe.

 

[CaptainRatbag]

Saz..... who freezes them to death? I cant find mention of it in the thread?

Blake, you cant use any old gas.... it has to be Co2 or there are others, but you have to know FOR SURE. no guessing. Otherwise you might end up poisoning someones snake!... then the poop would hit the fan!

 

[Saz]

yeah i know i was in there last weeken and i ask how much for and ault mice
''ill just look for you''
''$9''
me facepalm and left
so im going to try and breed them to try and make a little cash
but is it all right to put them in the frezer to kill them

^^^

 

[CaptainRatbag]

Guys, he is a school kid.... it is for a school project.... he is not going to go into business breeding mice. School.... he'll have a crack at it..... temporary...... He probably doesnt drive, so mum would have to taxi him around. Ok $9 for a mouse :shock: $27:shock::shock: for the 3 to get started .... ok, at least mum wont have to drive him all over town and burn shootloads of petrol.....cool...... lets get started! He cant afford and doesnt want 7 female super mice.... a boc Co2 system..... I am proud of him that he is doing something real.... not playing on a playstation or something

How about encouraging him with his project, rather than telling him how to breed millions of super mice?

You are right wokka, I have 6mm drain mesh on my mouse cages fronts (over top of 12mmx12mm on lid).... I keep thinking of rats.... thanks for that

So, how old are you Blake?

Congo, sorry to bore you.... these long posts are for blake, you have my permission to not bother reading them

 

[Saz]

Where on earth did I say he should hire a BOC canister? I mentioned that solely because your post indirectly implied I was a cheapskate feeder breeder who smacked my rodents on the ground because I couldn't be bothered spending money on a soda stream - whether you meant to imply it or not, that's what it sounded like. My point was, I didn't cheap out on a soda stream - I got the proper equipment!

My suggestion is that if he can't afford a soda stream (which I considered was possible seeing that he is a youngun - I assume 15/16) he should use a manual method rather than freeze them. As gross as it is, its more humane for the animals than freezing them.

I haven't bred supermice since 2008 so that must have been mentioned by someone else. $9 for a mouse is an insane price, even private PET breeders only sell their mice for $5.

Most of these mouseries won't sell for food purposes, but some will. Might be worth taking a look at the list Blake and seeing if any are near you. Master List of Ratteries and Mouseries - AusRFS Forums

edit: Specifically try Coastal Rodents, she was a feeder breeder as well as a pet breeder. Not sure if she still breeds though. She's on the central coast of NSW.

 

[CaptainRatbag]

But who freezes them? I cant see anywhere in the thread anyone saying they freeze live mice?

Sorry if you thought I was having a shot at you over anything saz? Good on you for doing what you do.... thats good, you have the right equipment. I have cheaped out on a soda stream, only because my rat and mice sales are really from a hobby a bit out of control, I am not trying to make heaps of $ out of it (and no, I am not saying you are either) If you are happy to manually euthanase your rats/mice.... no probs.... I am just not happy doing that myself..... no drama?

I know $9 is way too much for a mouse, I payed $4 for mine at a pet shop & 1 was already preggo (bonus) the babies looked normal.... big ears tho..... then the fur fell out :shock: seems daddy was a hairless :lol: And like I said earlier, I needed a boy rat urgent (I thought Buster must have been shooting blanks) and the only male rat I could get hold of was $20 :shock: (a shame there isnt a vomit smiley) but I didn't want to drive all over looking (not many petshops sell rodents around here, they are in malls, no rodent policy) so I just coffed up $20 (and cried all the way home) I just wanted to get things happening. All good, Buster is the man! (and the $20 rat was useless, the girls would beat him up, he was the one that I fed that big carpet in my shed)

My interest here is just to give blake a bit of a hand

 

[ingie]

Saz is spot on.

Captainratbag, Saz already posted the quote where a question is raised by the OP about if it is OK to freeze live.

An appropriate diet for an omnivore is not a staple of frozen vegetables. I suggest using a rat and mouse pellet from the pet shop and supplement with any scraps you have. Pellets have been formulated to be a complete and appropriate diet for rodents and will give your mice the bast chance of being healthy and good mums. That being said I don't like many pet shop rodent 'mixes'. They aren't balanced like the pellets, and all that green lucerne chaff gets wasted as the rodents barely eat it. Fancy Feast is a good mix though if you only have a few mice to feed. With only a few mice the rodent pellets will last you AGES though and your rodents will be much healthier than feeding them a random mix of non balanced foods. Frozen peas and corn with a few other scraps and no meat is not in any way a complete or balanced diet.

Inbreeding rodents is the best tool we have to produce consistant, reliable and good natured rodents who are good mothers. When you inbreed you quickly expose any hidden genetic floors, which you then cull, and you are left with babies that do not have floors, who become your future breeders. If you keep inbreeding each generation, your mice will improve as it allows you to select towards all the positive traits that you want in your mice (not eating babies, getting along with other mice, being good mums, being friendly and inquisitive to humans etc).

Being advised that you must use unrelated mice at all times is both unrealistic as well as poor advice. Inbreeding rodents is not the same as inbreeding other species. There are no long term negative effects at all once you have culled off any initial floored mice that pop up.

I euthanise using soda stream Co2 or by donking them on the head. Donking is instant, which is why I like it. Gassing takes a little longer and I only do it when I am culling large numbers. Sarah's method with the BOC cylinder is fantastic because you can regulate the amount co2 being used at each stage. The soda stream is difficult to regulate and there can be times where the rodents don't go unconscious as quickly as you would hope.

All I can say is be careful who you take information from! If this is a school project them you will be interested in learning correct information. You won't find a better source than Saz.

Some people try any idea that pops into their head, and because the rodents didn't die they assume what they do is fantastic and appropriate to pass on to other people as 'the way things should be done'. This doesn't mean their methods are based on fact.

 

[JAS101]

Mice can run straight through 12mm x 12mm wire mesh, so that will soon get your mother offside. You need 6mm x 6mm mesh to stop mice. If you can find a petshop that will take your surplus mice, that is a lot easier tha n dealing with the inconsistency of the public.

your right i went and had a look , i use 6x6mm wire . for some reason i thought it was 12x12 ..
and your right again , i dont sell off my extras to the public - i sell mine to one pet supplier only - its a much better way .

 

[Blake182]

Well I'm 16 and I'm
A 1 year bucher
School base tranieship

And evey one give great advice just cause it a different way then your dost really madder
I think if fantastic
So I can afford to pay the adult price to get on
But I have always wanted to breed them
And like I said I might expand if I like it and have time for it
But keep the replys coming
People aps is bad I say APS is the best thing on the Internet
(sorry for the bad spelling on my iPad )

 

[PythonLegs]

'Sure sonny, go ahead and kill as many mice as you like, however you want, in the shed I never visit. Just don't show me'.

Pretty sure that's how Ivan and Ted got their starts, too.