Mum backs dog, chides son for pulling ears before mauling

[Midol]

if that was my dog it would of got a working over.

Why?

:lol:

Do we even have any pro-BSL folks here?

Yes, we do.

 

[waruikazi]

Firedragon and others, the kid may have learnt his lesson, but what happens next time the idiot mother takes the dog out to the shops, ties her up outside the supermarket and the dog goes for another kid who 'hasn't' learnt his lesson??? My daughter is nearly 3 and has know for about a year to never approach a strange dog unless I say its OK - but many parents from non-dog backgrounds would never have thought to teach their children basic dog safety.

And I do believe that dogs which are specifically bred for hunting and fighting (pitbulls, tosas etc) should have restrictions placed on their ownership, in the same way venomous snakes are regulated; muzzled when in public places, kept in secure, exit- and entry-proof enclosures so kids can't get in and dogs can't get out. And I believe that ANY dog, regardless of breed, that shows a pattern of violent behaviour towards dogs or people should be destroyed.

I adore dogs and have had dogs as pets all my life, but realistically, they are NOT people, and if they endanger people's lives, for whatever reason (poor training , neglect and abuse as a pup etc), as sad as it may be, that danger should be eliminated.

Honestly, I don't understand the need for anyone to have one of these restricted dogs except as a status symbol (or for hunting, but that makes them effectively a working dog and they should be treated as such) There are so many breeds of dogs out there, I defy anyone to name one attribute that a pitbull has, that can't be found in another dog breed which won't cause as much damage if it attacks. Loyalty? Get a German Shepherd, border collie, or pretty much any breed of dog! Friendliness? Labrador, Golden retriever. Active and great with kids? Boxer, Jack Russell. Guard dog? Pretty much any big dog with a deep bark!

I don't understand what it is (apart from the ability to inflict horrific amounts of damage with excessively strong jaws) that is unique to a pitbull.

In the interests of full disclosure, the breeds I have owned include: Dalmation, English Pointer, Cocker Spaniel (mum's not mine!) and Labrador.

Any large dog has the potential to kill any person. Why should a specific breed be banned? The last severe dog attack in the territory was last week and it was a labrador, should all labradors be banned?

I have a german wire haired pointer, she is far more agressive than any of my friends pittys, staffys and bull mastiffs. Breed specific bans are a load of crap and will not stop dog attacks.

 

[Midol]

I don't let my kids play with an animal that has the capacity to kill them.

And those that wern't bred for hunting or fighting were usually bred from hunting or fighting dogs.

Yep, ohhh, don't let anyone know that if we trace dogs back they are all hunters, not a single dog breed doesn't stem from a hunter

 

[waruikazi]

Jesus Christ Jessb, under your logic there is no reason for anyone to have a dog. What makes you think people buy these dogs as a status symbol, have you ever spoken to a pitty owner? I am getting a Bull Terrrier, not because they were bred for hunting and fighting. I am getting one because i like their appearance and personality.

 

[jessb]

There's a pretty big difference between a Jack Russell that is bred to catch a rat, and a dog that is designed to bring down a wild pig - if only in terms of size and the amount of damage that can be inflicted! But realistically, I wouldn't ever leave my child alone with a Jack Russell either.

And most dogs AREN'T bred from hunting or fighting dogs (unless you want to go right back to wild dogs...) Retrievers, Pointers, Spaniels, Poodles etc are all used in hunting, but not specifically to kill the prey - they obviously have roles in hunting, but that's clearly not what I meant when I referred to hunting dogs.

And there are plenty of dogs that are used for loads of other things; cattle dogs, shepherds, lapdogs... The list goes on and on!

 

[Midol]

How is there a difference? They are both bred to kill. A small Aussie Terrier can easily kill a 2 year old.

Do you even understand how retrievers, pointers and such are trained? They are trained using prey drive. Prey drive is the drive used to train hunting dogs. It's the drive that causes a dog to chase something.

Since you advocate people needing a reason to own dogs... Did you have a carriage when you owned a dally? Did you hunt ducks with your lab?

BTW, A guard dog requires more than a deep bark. You are confusing guard dog with watch dog. and while we're on this subject no reputable trainer would train a pitbull, staffie or amstaff in guarding (not the majority anyway). They don't have the drive required. The list of breeds suitable for guarding and protection is actually very short.

EDIT: Cockers are retrievers (gundogs). Does your mother need a gundog? If not, why does she have one?

 

[jessb]

Jesus Christ Jessb, under your logic there is no reason for anyone to have a dog. What makes you think people buy these dogs as a status symbol, have you ever spoken to a pitty owner? I am getting a Bull Terrrier, not because they were bred for hunting and fighting. I am getting one because i like their appearance and personality.

Not at all - in fact I believe every family should have a dog! They are great companions, teach children empathy and responsibility, encourage exercise and outdoor play - and are just plain loely to have around! I'm not sure where your assumption came from actually, waruikazi!

I know from visiting dog parks for over 20 years that every time I see an aggressive, big, mastiff-type dog it is invariably wearing a massive studded collar and is owned by an equally aggressive beefy bloke.

 

[waruikazi]

There's a pretty big difference between a Jack Russell that is bred to catch a rat, and a dog that is designed to bring down a wild pig - if only in terms of size and the amount of damage that can be inflicted! But realistically, I wouldn't ever leave my child alone with a Jack Russell either.

And most dogs AREN'T bred from hunting or fighting dogs (unless you want to go right back to wild dogs...) Retrievers, Pointers, Spaniels, Poodles etc are all used in hunting, but not specifically to kill the prey - they obviously have roles in hunting, but that's clearly not what I meant when I referred to hunting dogs.

And there are plenty of dogs that are used for loads of other things; cattle dogs, shepherds, lapdogs... The list goes on and on!

So these dogs pose no attack threat to anyone?

 

[waruikazi]

Not at all - in fact I believe every family should have a dog! They are great companions, teach children empathy and responsibility, encourage exercise and outdoor play - and are just plain loely to have around! I'm not sure where your assumption came from actually, waruikazi!

I know from visiting dog parks for over 20 years that every time I see an aggressive, big, mastiff-type dog it is invariably wearing a massive studded collar and is owned by an equally aggressive beefy bloke.

So you decide from the collar on a dog and the appearance of the owner that they are agressive and dangerous animals owned and bred soley to scare people? Are all people that own a poodle that is shaved and done up gay?

 

[Midol]

And opposing your post JessB almost every vicious dog I meet in a dog park is a small white fluffy dog running around snapping at large dogs with the owner ignoring its poor behavior and thinking it's "cute" that their little white fluffy dog is biting the big mean dog.

Then the big dog snaps at it. Suddenly the big mean dog is vicious and the one who was behaving poorly.

People need to learn the rules in off leash dog parks. Your dogs are not allowed to approach another dog. Your dog MUST be under your control at all times. When you call it back it MUST come back.

 

[waruikazi]

People need to learn the rules in off leash dog parks. Your dogs are not allowed to approach another dog. Your dog MUST be under your control at all times. When you call it back it MUST come back.

But we all know staffys, bully's, mastiffs and pittys are completely untrainable and never ever listen to their owner when commanded.

 

[tfor2]

Thats disgraceful..... I say put the mother down and rehouse the dog with a more suited family.....

 

[jessb]

How is there a difference? They are both bred to kill. A small Aussie Terrier can easily kill a 2 year old.

Do you even understand how retrievers, pointers and such are trained? They are trained using prey drive. Prey drive is the drive used to train hunting dogs. It's the drive that causes a dog to chase something.

Since you advocate people needing a reason to own dogs... Did you have a carriage when you owned a dally? Did you hunt ducks with your lab?

BTW, A guard dog requires more than a deep bark. You are confusing guard dog with watch dog. and while we're on this subject no reputable trainer would train a pitbull, staffie or amstaff in guarding (not the majority anyway). They don't have the drive required. The list of breeds suitable for guarding and protection is actually very short.

EDIT: Cockers are retrievers (gundogs). Does your mother need a gundog? If not, why does she have one?

This is the kind of debate that has been missing in this thread! lol

I can guarantee an Aussie Terrier will take a lot longer to kill a 2yo than a pitbull will - I mean really!

I think you misunderstood my point about the origins of different breeds - I wasn't suggesting that dogs should ONLY be used for their original tasks (and Labs were actually originally fishing dogs and were only later trained to be gun dogs) I was suggesting that dogs with certain temperaments are better than others for keeping as pets, and their instinctive traits DO affect their behaviour .

And I DO think that people need a reason to own a dog - of course they do! Otherwise why would they get one????? It just depends what those reasons are...

Retrievers aren't trained to "chase" prey - if that was the case, then they would do what a terrier does and shake it to piecs before bringing it back! They are trained to "retrieve" a duck without damaging it. Surely there is a significant difference between that and being trained to go out and bring down a vicious feral pig!

"So these dogs pose no attack threat to anyone?" waruikazi
What a silly statement, of course not! Any dog can be dangerous (see my original statement) - it's just that some have more propensity than others, therefore should be subject to stricter conditions - in the same way a venomous snake is required to be kept under stricter conditions, by an owner who has proven that they are capable of mitigating the possibility of negative consequences.

I think everyone, anti- or pro-BSL should avoid absolutes; "all pitbulls are dangerous" vs "no pitbulls are dangerous". I concede that dangerous dogs occur in any breed, and my original stament addressed this, but I also acknowledge that some breeds are more prone to attacking than others, and I don't see the harm in trying to reduce the risk that poses to the public.

 

[jessb]

And Midol and waruikazi, please stop putting words into my mouth. I'm perfectly capable of speaking for myself. As smart and all-knowing as you may be, please don't claim to know me or my motivations.

 

[waruikazi]

Jessb... it was a question not a statement

My point is that any breed of dog is dangerous and BSL will not solve dog attacks. Current dog laws IMO are sufficient, the problem is they are not being enforced because BSL supporters instantly label any dog that has attacked anyone as a 'pit fighting' type of dog. Then all attention is turned to specific breed bashing instead of the focus being on correct housing/fencing, treatment, breeding and training of all dog breeds.

 

[Midol]

You missed the point about prey drive. They don't view the duck as prey. They are trained USING prey drive. That doesn't mean they treat the item as prey. It's also referred to as training in "drive".

If you're interested in reading about it then here is a thread on the dog forum I am a member on:
http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=43795&hl=prey

I personally view the guy who started that thread as the best dog trainer in Australia. Ask any of the top trainers if they've heard of Steve from K9 Force and you can gaurantee the answer will be yes.

And no doubt that a pitbull or any large dog will cause more damage, faster than a smaller dog. But this doesn't mean that they shouldn't be bred or owned.

A well trained pig dog is more trustworthy than your average pet imo. I'd trust a trained guard dog before I'd trust someones family pet.

 

[Renagade]

i think the scars of having such a junk parent are far worse than the ones the dog gave him.

 

[channi]

Regardless of breed a dog is a dog is a dog. The simple fact here is that dogs are pack animals and learn their place in the pack by fighting with other members, only the pack leader or more dominant pack members have the authority to stop fights in less dominant members. by allowing the dog to attack the child the mother has given the dog a place in pack more dominant than her child and thus given the dog rights over the child to attack the child any time the dog might feel like it. No dog should be allowed to consider him or her self more dominant than any human pack member.

 

[Midol]

That's easily fixed.

And what makes you think a dog higher up in the pack will attack less dominant members of the pack whenever they feel like it?

The alpha dog keeps the rest of the pack in line.

 

[kakariki]

Pack heirachy ....alpha male, alpha female, offspring of alpha pair automatically over subordinates. The dog would have been yelled at at the very least & it would know the child is "higher". Only if the dog was patted and made a fuss of would it think it had come up in the pack order. Look at the size of the dog compared to the child! I think the kid got off lightly. Parents need to control the children and the dogs! No dog, I don't care how good or what breed, is 100% trustworthy around kids. Dogs need to be protected from the kids & vice versa.