A
Ambush
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I'm all for it.
As for wireless its ok for some things but on a whole. It's rubbish.
As for wireless its ok for some things but on a whole. It's rubbish.
NBN roll out
- Thread starter thomasssss
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thomasssss
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cheers , it was a little annoying but youve gotta do what youve gotta do
we have joked about finding gold , maybe one day
RedFox
Very Well-Known Member
Are there many people on here with firsthand experience using the NBN? The up take seems to be quite low for a service that is meant to be securing Australia’s future and ensuring our competitiveness on the world stage. When our Government decided to go ahead with the NBN they did not run cost-benefit studies. Now the NBN is the biggest single investment of taxpayers’ funds in our history, it is normal for cost-benefit studies too be undertaken for smaller expenditures but for some reason not this policy. It doesn’t make much sense to me.
I worry about how much, when it is all completed (if it is ever completed), we will be paying for this service. Also our current phone lines will be disconnected meaning if you want a home phone you need to be connected to NBN. This leaves two choices sign up and pay up or do without a home phone. This is not a big deal for a lot of people who just use their mobiles anyway. But if more people decide to go mobile doesn’t that make some of the cables going into our homes redundant and a waste of taxpayers’ money?
While I think it is good that something is being done, I can only see this as being one of those projects that run over time and over budget. It is definetly interesting to see what approaches other countries have taken and what they have budgeted.
I worry about how much, when it is all completed (if it is ever completed), we will be paying for this service. Also our current phone lines will be disconnected meaning if you want a home phone you need to be connected to NBN. This leaves two choices sign up and pay up or do without a home phone. This is not a big deal for a lot of people who just use their mobiles anyway. But if more people decide to go mobile doesn’t that make some of the cables going into our homes redundant and a waste of taxpayers’ money?
While I think it is good that something is being done, I can only see this as being one of those projects that run over time and over budget. It is definetly interesting to see what approaches other countries have taken and what they have budgeted.
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
It is being built and run by a GOC. Many would say that a GOC would have high running costs and cause higher prices to the retailer who then pass on the costs to the consumer. I my experience with the electrical industry in Queensland and from what I have heard about places like South Australia while the electricity networks were owned and run by the government electricity prices were a lot lower than what they are now. The government promised that the sell off would introduce competitive retail prices but we have seen nothing but increase after increase and everybody is pointing there finger at everybody else. I see it as a good thing that the government is taking back the telephone and internet network and providing us with an up to date and reliable service.
V
Virides
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Everyone worries about the cost now, the delays, etc.
Think what it would be like in 20yrs had we not undergone the change over, still on copper, with ADSL speeds capping at around 20Mbit (techincally less with most people beyond the butter zone of high end speed). In 20yrs you will all be complaining "Why wasn't this done years ago?!". Sure it costs alot now, but it is national infrastructure - future infrastructure. It will all make sense in years to come. Like it or not, Australia is amongst the strongest economies in the world and we need infrastructure that supports that into the future.
When the NBN becomes available in my area (mid this year I think), I will personally be staying with my ADSL 2+ service since the cost to speed benefit isn't enticing enough to change. But that's just because the cost of the NBN service available to me is too expensive for now. If the price comes down to half or under of what it is now, I will likely switch. But it is good to know there is a better option available in the future.
Think what it would be like in 20yrs had we not undergone the change over, still on copper, with ADSL speeds capping at around 20Mbit (techincally less with most people beyond the butter zone of high end speed). In 20yrs you will all be complaining "Why wasn't this done years ago?!". Sure it costs alot now, but it is national infrastructure - future infrastructure. It will all make sense in years to come. Like it or not, Australia is amongst the strongest economies in the world and we need infrastructure that supports that into the future.
When the NBN becomes available in my area (mid this year I think), I will personally be staying with my ADSL 2+ service since the cost to speed benefit isn't enticing enough to change. But that's just because the cost of the NBN service available to me is too expensive for now. If the price comes down to half or under of what it is now, I will likely switch. But it is good to know there is a better option available in the future.
thomasssss
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to right , do it now why wait for when we desperately need it
personally i think the talk from Abbott about dropping fibre is nothing but a political ploy to put crap on Gillard , if he does drop it it will be one of the biggest mistakes of his career , time will tell
sawowie- the company i work for actually started up it armidale , network infrastructure services -NIS the had the contract doing lead ins to houses and bit of other stuff , i have to ask just how good is your connection can it compare to any sort of wireless system ?
also anyone thinking of having it in the future should be smart and get the wires installed when it comes to your town and is still covered and paid for by the government , otherwise when it becomes the only option available you will miss out whether you like it or not and will have to pay for it yourself just because you where a stubborn old fart , think of that people
Maybe you should change your name to Right_Wing_Nut?
You can find the NBN plans available already, and they cost the same, or less for effectively more because you get the guaranteed speed. http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/isp-9-16/internode-nbn.htm (And have a look at some of the other ISPs)
A lot of WA is empty space, so of course a significant portion is going to be covered by wireless, it's sparsely populated with few exceptions.
As for 1/4 of the funding being from WA GST, what a load of bollocks. The GST collected, is distributed back to the states, all of it.
I have guarenteed speed currently from my ISP, and not only will the NBN be more expensive (based on written quotations from ISPs as I investigated a move in this direction) is will not be available for at least another 18 months, however there is no guarentee here either.
The NBN is funded by debt, which is really just a fancy way the government has moved to protect the bottom line of the budget. In reality the money that will be funding the interest payment on the debt incurred will come from GST REVENUE. The NBN is forecast to be self funding by the government however this make many assumptions. Firstly it assumes a deal will be made with Telstra which will move 3-4 million customers onto the network. This deal is still yet to be struck. Secondly it is reliant on a 70% take up of NBN network, which even the government has been forced to admit is unlikely. Any shortfall in these estimations will incur a increased cost to the government which will cause a massive blowout in costs. The funding for the interest repayments on the network until it operational is funded to the tune of 9 billion from the WA economy. Do some research.
The reality is the rollout of the NBN was motivated politically. WA has once again been forgotten by the federal government much like the new schooling policy and the mining tax.
Regards
Right_Wing_Nut and proud of it
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
I thought this deal had been struck?
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
Extract from the Telstra site.
On 23 June 2011, Telstra reached agreements with NBN Co and the Australian Government to participate in the roll-out of the NBN. The agreements are dependent on various pre-conditions including approvals from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and a majority of Telstra shareholders.At our October 2011 Annual General Meeting, 99% of Telstra shareholders who voted strongly supported the Board’s recommendation to participate in the roll-out of the NBN. This vote was an important step in the process we commenced more than two years ago. There’s one further step before we can participate in the NBN roll-out – and that’s the ACCC’s approval of our Structural Separation Undertaking and Migration Plan.If the agreements are implemented, NBN Co has agreed to use, and pay for, access to parts of Telstra’s infrastructure as it rolls out the NBN. We’ve agreed to progressively stop providing fixed line services, including phone and broadband services over our copper and HFC cable networks, and migrate services onto the NBN as it’s rolled out. We’ll continue providing Pay TV services on our HFC cable network.Customer relationships and contracts will stay with Telstra and we’re committed to providing our customers with superior value through our market-leading products.Detailed information on the Definitive Agreements can be found on Telstra's Investor Relations website.
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
Surely the "deal" as such has been struck and the ACCC will be a formality?
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
How will it reduce competition?
Telstra is going to lease it's infrastructure to NBN Co, however will automatically be awarded lease of the NBN network at a subsidised rate compared to other retailers. This is regardless of actual retail figures. It will simply create another vertical monopoly that existed decades ago.
Wing_Nut
Wing_Nut
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
Can you confirm the rates that Telstra and other retailers will be charged? I think that there was a monopoly while Telstra owned the entire network and it isn't much better that optus has limited network around the place. That is why the ACCC is the watchdog to regulate this. Energex was forced to sell off their retail side of the company because the ACCC saw it as unfair that they sell power to themselves and other retailers and now Energex does not buy or sell power at all and only rents their lines out to whoever wants to use them. This is probably a very similar model that they are using for the NBN.
The whole premise the NBN was based on that it will wholesale to all retailers equally. This is what the ACCC is trying to ensure happens, but with NBN Co paying Telstra 11 billion dollars, they are concerned that a little corporate favouritism might take place. And that's never happened before has it?
Wing_Nut
Wing_Nut
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
I think that this is too big an issue in the publics crosshairs for the government to let that happen. The only way this may happen is if the Liberals get in. LOL Just kidding don't want to turn this into a political discussion.
The whole preface is political, which is the biggest failing of the current plan. It the NBN had been independently costed and scrutinised and a independent body put in place to oversee the rollout and construction, with transparency, then we wouldn't need this discussion. My issue is that the NBN budget will blow out, it won't deliver services fairly over the entire nation, and the cost to the consumer is very uncertain in the long term. Initially the NBN was going to be privatised upon it's completion however this is no longer the case, effectively lumping the government with an asset that may or may not be profitable. The NBN Co his already over budget and behind schedule. If the NBN delivers all it's promises I will be surprised and eat humble pie.
Wing_Nut
Wing_Nut
andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
You are probably right saying that the budget has blown out and not everyone will get equal service but I feel it is a service that the country needs and the best way to guarantee this is to have it owned and run by the government to start with. If you look at all services that we use at the moment there is staggered levels of service dependant on a range of factors. For example in my shire (Logan City) people with a reduced service level (trickle feed) of water supply pay a higher line rental due to the fact that they live in a rural area and therefore the cost of the extra meters of pipe is passed onto them whereas the urban areas get full supply of water and pay less. Another example is the service level that rural electricity customers get is a lot lower and rural KPI power restoration times are slower to these customers for the simple fact that there are a lot less customers per km of line and therefore less revenue.
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