Oenpelli Python may be on the market in our life times

[GeckPhotographer]

Sorry mate that comment wasn't just aimed at you and i'm sorry if it came off as confrontational. Gavin doesn't make any secret that he is working on a project and collecting some is part of it, but that is his story to tell and no one elses. I personally think it is innapropriate to be asking questions to third parties on a public forum mainly for two reasons. If you want genuine answers go straight to the source, most of the people talking in this thread know Gavin (including you by the sounds) just call him. He is no more than an aquaintane to me but he is the kind of bloke that will take the time to answer your call. Secondly, loose lips sink ships. Anyone involved in a project like this is already up against it, rumours, chinese whispers and jealousy could end this project. Ask the questions but do it privately or go to the source.

I also am no more than an acquaintance really but my mum knows him well I think from Uni. If I wanted real info on where the progress stands I suppose I would ring him, and that information he gave me I would leave for him to give to others. The reason I am saying what he said to me is because it is several (nearly3) years old but is still pertinent to hurdles and obstacles being faced in bringing them into captivity. Regardless I am not too interested in Oenpellies and not really asking questions just discussing.
It was not too confrontational just justifying my position. Sorry if I seemed to be confronting in that reply also.

Hopefully when I finish school I will have some time free and might go up to the NT and see if I am super lucky enough to see this snake.

 

[Naga_Kanya]

Naga i recon you would love what's referred to as the baby one of these snakes. It's an incredibly slender childrens and goes through some pretty mad colour changes.

Sounds very cool. I'm guessing you're talking about an antaresia variety? Which one? I only know of the standard four. I've heard the RSP changes colour a little, but that's a Morelia, isn't it? Would love to know more.

 

[waruikazi]

Yeah they are just a childreni but because of th isolated habitat they are in they look a little different. Here's a couple, they change colour in different light cycles, but alot of pythons do so it isn't all that special really.

this one made me look a fool.

 

[Naga_Kanya]

Oooh, nifty! That silvery colour's cool. Which area do they come from? Now if we just blow them up to 4m long, they'll be perfect!

 

[waruikazi]

Oooh, nifty! That silvery colour's cool. Which area do they come from? Now if we just blow them up to 4m long, they'll be perfect!

Exact same area, West Arnhem escarpment country.

 

[longirostris]

Sorry mate that comment wasn't just aimed at you and i'm sorry if it came off as confrontational. Gavin doesn't make any secret that he is working on a project and collecting some is part of it, but that is his story to tell and no one elses. I personally think it is innapropriate to be asking questions to third parties on a public forum mainly for two reasons. If you want genuine answers go straight to the source, most of the people talking in this thread know Gavin (including you by the sounds) just call him. He is no more than an aquaintane to me but he is the kind of bloke that will take the time to answer your call. Secondly, loose lips sink ships. Anyone involved in a project like this is already up against it, rumours, chinese whispers and jealousy could end this project. Ask the questions but do it privately or go to the source.

I'm not too keen on keeping them either, but i'm loving the detective work hunting them down.

Couldn't agree more with your comments Waruikazi, Gavin, for my part, actually is a friend of mine and I know that he does not appreciate his name being bandied about on these forums, particularly on speculative topics such as this. I have not spoken to him about this thread, but I did speak to him recently about another thread where his name was bandied about in a speculative manner (from memory it was also relating to the collection of OP's) and he was less then impressed. In fact he was pretty annoyed, as the comment he made was expected to be between himself and the individual who then posted up his comment some time later.

 

[waruikazi]

Before the topic of ownership is passed over i want to make a few points.

If you own some land, wether you bought it or it was left to you by your family, you have an undeniable right to that land and the resources on it. If someone wants wants to come along and use your land for farming, mining, tourism or whatever then that party has a moral and legal obligation to compensate you for that use.

Aboriginal people own that land, the sense of ownership is different to the ownership non-indigenous people feel but they own it none-the-less. The animals on their land are a resource. If we want them we need to pay for them. Indigenous people are not the only people who ask for this payment, the QLD Gov requires payment for animals removed from the wild among others.

The spiritual connection that the locals have with all the animals is real, it's not something they make up to try and swindle money out of people (the NLC yes but not local mob). If you are religious you could compare the feeling to a patron saint, Jesus, Muhammod etc.

 

[serpenttongue]

their not exactly,hmmm how can i put this....
there pretty ugly..... they look like they have had serious acne scarring lol
.

I find them to be absolutely stunning . Very lean and slender, long heads, big eyes, and they are able to lighten their colour at night (like the RSP). I bet a freshly shed specimen would look awesome. Magnificent beasts, but I wouldn't keep one.

 

[Waterrat]

Gordo, I agree with your comments - in principle, but this is not a case of mining, grazing or urban development. We are talking about taking maybe 4 snakes for the purpose of captive breeding which may one day save the species from extinction. I am not talking about OP in pet keeper's possession watching TV with OP on their lap. I am talking about "conservation breeding" as proposed by the two people you know and many of us support.
Surely, the indigenous people wouldn't object to that and just like we, non-indigenous Australians (through our governments) are giving the Aboriginal people generously, I mean millions and millions, they could too show little bit of generosity, especially if it's in the interest of the survival of one of "their" species.
We all have different views on this - this is mine.

 

[waruikazi]

Either way it is still a resource. 'Conservation breeding' can only be a part of the project, these animals will make it onto the pet trade and there will be some people to make money off them and it is only right that the traditional owners who have allowed this to happen be among beneficiaries. If the animals were staying within zoos and wildlife parks and not ever coming into pet trade (even then they would have a tourism $$$ value) i would concede your point.

Luckily, in my view, all of the major parties involved hold the same view as i do.

Gordo, I agree with you comments - in principle but this is not a case of mining, grazing or urban development. We are talking about taking maybe 4 snakes for the purpose of captive breeding which may one day save the species from extinction. I am not talking about OP in pet keeper's possession, I am talking about "conservation breeding" as proposed by the two people you know and supported by many.
Surely, the indigenous people wouldn't object to that and just like we, non-indigenous mob (our governments) are giving the Aboriginial people generously, I say millions and millions, they could too show little bit of generosity, especially if it's in the interest of the survival of one of "their" species.
We all have different views on this - this is mine.

 

[Waterrat]

I worked and involuntarily paid taxes all my life. My salary was my resource yet the government took a slice of it and gave it to the indigenous people, without my consent or without my knowledge. I earned that money, I owned the money - it was my resource. Ambiguity ? However, I don't have any problem with it, lets help those in need .... but lets not make it a one way street.
I could argue this topic as vigorously as I do creationism, but lets leave it here. Peace man.

 

[waruikazi]

Oh boy that's a big carrot you dangle in front of me!

Righto, in the interest of this thread and world peace i'll leave it after this comment, our taxes go to everyone, not just blackfellas!

Peace!

I worked and involuntarily paid taxes all my life. My salary was my resource yet the government took a slice of it and gave it to the indigenous people, without my consent or without my knowledge. I earned that money, I owned the money - it was my resource. Ambiguity ? However, I don't have any problem with it, lets help those in need .... but lets not make it a one way street.
I could argue this topic as vigorously as I do creationism, but lets leave it here. Peace man.

 

[killimike]

our taxes go to everyone, not just blackfellas!

... including to creationists! I love it. Indigenous issues always bring out you two guys. I'm just looking for kawasakirider now actually...

Back to the OP, I hope that they are able to be established in a captive breeding program.

 

[saximus]

I could argue this topic as vigorously as I do creationism...

For or against?

 

[Waterrat]

Gordo, do you see it possible / feasible / desirable / appropriate for the Aboriginal people living within the Oenpelli python's distribution range to establish a breeding program themselves? I think it would be marvelous a way to resolve the situation. No permits required, collection done on their doorstep, intimate knowledge of the species and its ecology, government grant to set up the facility ....... what else is needed? They could then sell the offspring to us reptile keepers, make good profits and pay no tax on it. Win win situation, everybody should be happy.

 

[saximus]

Gordo, do you see it possible / feasible / desirable / appropriate for the Aboriginal people living within the Oenpelli python's distribution range to establish a breeding program themselves? I think it would be marvelous a way to resolve the situation. No permits required, collection done on their doorstep, intimate knowledge of the species and its ecology, government grant to set up the facility ....... what else is needed? They could then sell the offspring to us reptile keepers, make good profits and pay no tax on it. Win win situation, everybody should be happy.

If they're as difficult as you say, wouldn't this kind of thing be infeasible for anyone other than herpetologists who understands specific needs?

 

[waruikazi]

Gordo, do you see it possible / feasible / desirable / appropriate for the Aboriginal people living within the Oenpelli python's distribution range to establish a breeding program themselves? I think it would be marvelous a way to resolve the situation. No permits required, collection done on their doorstep, intimate knowledge of the species and its ecology, government grant to set up the facility ....... what else is needed? They could then sell the offspring to us reptile keepers, make good profits and pay no tax on it. Win win situation, everybody should be happy.

Wow messy question, i'll try and answer it without getting myself into trouble. In my limited experience with the Indig cultures out here this is what i think.

Possible, Yes.
Desireable, Yes.
Appropriate, Yes... kinda.
Feasible... probably not.

I was going to make a big post about how many and the way the diff clans/language groups etc etc interact with each other and why it probably wouldn't work. But my understanding is still pretty limited so i wont.

I don't think the infrastructure, skills and the 'business' attitudes in the communities are mature enough yet. What i mean by that is, the time and effort and money required to get something like this up and running is better spent on more important things. That isn't a bad thing and i don't mean that in a derogatory way. Look at it like this, most Indigenous remote communites haven't yet developed to a stage where they can independantly run their own simple essential services, like a food store. They are getting there but they aren't there yet.

I hope no one reads that post as being racist or uses it to fuel racist attitudes. Unless you have lived out in these communities for significant ammounts of time you can't and won't understand the situation properly.

I also think it would encourage paoching even more than now. Why wait 5 years caring for an animal that may not ever reproduce for you when you could just go and catch one.

Not that poaching isn't happening now. The locals know how much they are worth and they know who to sell them to.

 

[Naga_Kanya]

Exact same area, West Arnhem escarpment country.

Okay ,that's really cool. Thank you. I wonder what it is about the area that leads to that particular reaction of the scales? It looks to my uneducated eye as though there's almost a coating on them ,a little like you get on grapes to give them that silvery appearance, and it's that which reacts to the light. I'm possibly/probably wrong, but it seems that it's an environmental quirk of some sort. I'd be really interested to know what it is about the Oenpelli/those Childreni that's different about their physiology.

 

[waruikazi]

Okay ,that's really cool. Thank you. I wonder what it is about the area that leads to that particular reaction of the scales? It looks to my uneducated eye as though there's almost a coating on them ,a little like you get on grapes to give them that silvery appearance, and it's that which reacts to the light. I'm possibly/probably wrong, but it seems that it's an environmental quirk of some sort. I'd be really interested to know what it is about the Oenpelli/those Childreni that's different about their physiology.

The colour change isn't restricted to these guys. I've seen colour change in carpets, other locality childrens change and RSP do too. It's cool, but nothing special.

 

[hugsta]

People were thinking about what hatchies would be worth before they even tried to get permission to collect them.

You are right. People within the hobby but not the people applying for the permits. At the end of the day, the price of the hatchies will be a very important factor, considering the royalties payable to the indigenous mob, the NT gov and who knows who else will stick their hand out when the smell of the $ start to linger.

What?? Are you serious, you think the only people that are thinking about the cost of the hatchies are the hobbiests and not those applying for the permits. What a load of crap. Those that are able to and have the means to apply for these animals are in to also make their fortunes as they have done with previous animals brought into the market. It will be no different to these if they get them and that goes for either of the two major parties that have the chance to collect and breed them.

The colour change isn't restricted to these guys. I've seen colour change in carpets, other locality childrens change and RSP do too. It's cool, but nothing special.

Common Gordo, cool, but nothing special....geez. You miss the whole point. You sell them at first as Oenpelli's and then when then market dies down you mysteriously breed a Ghost Oenpelli that changes colour and you watch people go nuts for this new 'special' morph, it is just amazing what people will do when you bullllcraaap the pants off them with a new fandangled so called morph.....