Possible mites and sores on snake

[buffcoat]

NIX or Prevent a Mite (PAM).

Both work well. PAM requires you to follow the directions to a T though.

NIX is a human lice treatment. Dilute one bottle of NIX in one gallon of distilled water, shake, fill a spray bottle and spray. Spray everything.

Remove the water bowls for 24 hours. After 2 weeks, spray the NIX again. Safe, easy and cheap (about $10 a bottle here in the states).

Spray around your vivs/tanks as well.

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[phatty]

i have used Permoxin at the dose rate for dogs to get rid of ticks it worked great i just made a batch up in a tub put snake in and left for 20min removed snake towel dried done fix my problem no scales where affected or colour coming off.
i would be doing it again without hesitation.

 

[n3xia]

i have used Permoxin at the dose rate for dogs to get rid of ticks it worked great i just made a batch up in a tub put snake in and left for 20min removed snake towel dried done fix my problem no scales where affected or colour coming off.
i would be doing it again without hesitation.

What was your dilution ratio? And how did you keep your snake in the water for 20 mins? My snakes seemed to panic/stress out when I held them down and even more so when I put the lid on the tub (with air holes) so they couldn't get out. I felt really bad

 

[saximus]

What was your dilution ratio? And how did you keep your snake in the water for 20 mins? My snakes seemed to panic/stress out when I held them down and even more so when I put the lid on the tub (with air holes) so they couldn't get out. I felt really bad

Tough love. They may not like it but it needs to be done.

I know you said it wasn't possible to get specific snake mite stuff but I'd be surprised if it took any more than a week to get some even from somewhere like Reptile Direct in Sydney. I would have quarantined the animal, cleaned the enclosure as best as possible, set off a flea bomb in the snake room and waited till the proper stuff arrived. A couple of extra days wouldn't have hurt it (unless it was so infested that it was near death already). I wouldn't expect the permoxin to have caused the issues you're talking about though (as long as you used the correct dilution). There are people on here who swear by it and if your issues were typical in cases where it had been used, that would be apparent in more people's experiences with it.
However, what's done is done now and you should probably just stop applying chemicals and monitor its condition. It's probably a good idea to get a couple of cans of mite spray to have on hand in case this ever happens again too.

 

[phatty]

[video=youtube;xaV_8DWq2lQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xaV_8DWq2lQ[/video]
found this vid it applys to scale rot but this is how i did it with permoxin and a very quick dip of the head after a while the snake with chill in there also use luke warm water not cold or hot

 

[TrueBlue]

A snakes skin is quite porous, rubbing oil all over the snake is nothing short of smothering it, and it can be quite a dangerous thing to do. This will not get rid of any mite in the enclosure so is a complete waste of time. Who ever recommends doing this is wrong on many levels.
There are alot of permetherin based products that work very well and are safe to use with the right dosage. Many are available from the chemist.

 

[thewestler]

Go to your vet and get chlorohexadine, is a versatile anti bacterial. Bath the snakes in the chlorohexadine and warm water and mites will drown and the chlorohexadine treats the sores you still need to treat the enclosure though, I used a bleach and metho dilution and lightly scrub the walls etc and remove all substrate and water bowls etc. boil any logs and water bowls and tank features in water and you should be mite free. Still wait a few days and scrub tank again incase any eggs have hatched out

 

[n3xia]

I know you said it wasn't possible to get specific snake mite stuff but I'd be surprised if it took any more than a week to get some even from somewhere like Reptile Direct in Sydney.

I have ordered TOD from eBay and expect it to arrive within a week. The sores had been there for at least a few weeks and the mites had spread to my other snake, so I wanted to take immediate action.

I would have quarantined the animal, cleaned the enclosure as best as possible, set off a flea bomb in the snake room and waited till the proper stuff arrived. A couple of extra days wouldn't have hurt it (unless it was so infested that it was near death already).

I did the best I could with the information I had at the time. Unfortunately this advice wasn't available to me on the weekend, although I will keep it in mind if I need to go through this again.

I wouldn't expect the permoxin to have caused the issues you're talking about though (as long as you used the correct dilution).

Well, is 50mL to a 10L bucket the 'correct dilution' or not? Nobody has answered me yet. This is what another APS member in another thread said they used.

you should probably just stop applying chemicals and monitor its condition.

I have. I only applied the Permoxin once, and have only been using baby oil ever since.

[video=youtube;xaV_8DWq2lQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xaV_8DWq2lQ[/video]
found this vid it applys to scale rot but this is how i did it with permoxin and a very quick dip of the head after a while the snake with chill in there also use luke warm water not cold or hot

My snakes were nowhere near this calm when I bathed them! They were twisting and squirming and frantically trying to get out of the tub. They would relax for maybe half a minute and then squirm again. The MD is 2m long and weighs 4.7kg so is a bit stronger than the snake in this vid.

A snakes skin is quite porous, rubbing oil all over the snake is nothing short of smothering it, and it can be quite a dangerous thing to do. This will not get rid of any mite in the enclosure so is a complete waste of time. Who ever recommends doing this is wrong on many levels.
There are alot of permetherin based products that work very well and are safe to use with the right dosage. Many are available from the chemist.

A trusted reptile vet recommended the oil - I'm assuming because there are no chemicals involved, it makes the mites slide off easier and makes it difficult for them to latch on to the snake, which it certainly seemed to do. A quick Google search shows that other people have successfully used the oil technique with no harm to their snakes. I'll keep the permetherin stuff in mind if I need to treat mites again in future.

 

[phatty]

the dose i used it at was 10 mls in 400 mls of water but that was for ticks i was told this by a person that has been doing it for years and has a permit to capture wildlife so they are more prone to ticks
my snake was no were near as calm as this as well but i used a 55lt tub my snake was 2700mtr long or bigger just get them in and close the lid.

 

[Ramsayi]

A trusted reptile vet recommended the oil - I'm assuming because there are no chemicals involved, it makes the mites slide off easier and makes it difficult for them to latch on to the snake, which it certainly seemed to do. A quick Google search shows that other people have successfully used the oil technique with no harm to their snakes. I'll keep the permetherin stuff in mind if I need to treat mites again in future.

Actually the oil suffocates the mites that's all.Soapy water should do the same.As to it being harmful or not I don't know however using anything to treat mites is risky so instructions should be followed to the letter.

 

[TrueBlue]

Id be looking for another vet.
As Ramsayi said, all oil does is suffocate the mite that are on the snake, (and suffocate the snake to an extent), it will not solve the problem by eradicating the rest of the mite.
The right permetherin bases solution will kill all mite on the snake and in the enclosure in one easy application, with no harm and very little stress to the animal. Simple.

 

[imported_Varanus]

EDP powder(iodine based) laced through some extra virgin olive oil for the snake (I use a basting brush) and TOD sprayed throughout the enclosure (after removing the snake). Sun drying the enclosures between enclosure changes and repeat in several days. The Adders love it!

 

[n3xia]

the dose i used it at was10 mls in 400 mls of water but that was for ticks i was told this by a person that has been doing it for years and has a permit to capture wildlife so they are more prone to ticks

Cool, so the dilution ratio I used was 5 times weaker than what you used, and yet their scales were flaking :/

my snake was no were near as calm as this as well but i used a 55lt tub my snake was 2700mtr long or bigger just get them in and close the lid.

I did exactly that, but couldn't bear seeing her still struggling and huffing even after a few minutes, so I opened the lid again and held her down as long as I could. Next time I'll just have to be a little more heartless I guess

 

[n3xia]

Id be looking for another vet.
As Ramsayi said, all oil does is suffocate the mite that are on the snake, (and suffocate the snake to an extent), it will not solve the problem by eradicating the rest of the mite.
The right permetherin bases solution will kill all mite on the snake and in the enclosure in one easy application, with no harm and very little stress to the animal. Simple.

The vet recommended the oil as well as a reptile mite spray, which I later discovered was not available. He told me the oil wouldn't kill the mites alone, and that I would have to treat the environment, snakes etc with the spray.

EDP powder(iodine based) laced through some extra virgin olive oil for the snake (I use a basting brush) and TOD sprayed throughout the enclosure (after removing the snake). Sun drying the enclosures between enclosure changes and repeat in several days. The Adders love it!

Another technique I will have to keep in mind if there's a next time. I did sun dry the enclosures and furniture though, after scrubbing them with bleach. 32C+ and direct sunlight for for 3-4 hours was no problem at all in the Darwin heat

 

[n3xia]

Just wanted to let you guys know the MD happily took a small rat (childreni's rejected food) and quail today, which I'm thinking is a good sign. The childreni refused food but he's always been a picky eater. Scales are still flaking, but less and less every day. Hoping it will clear up in a week or two.

 

[n3xia]

Another update, for the benefit of anyone who happens to experience a similar issue: The snakes have been at a reptile vet overnight as I was concerned about their scales still flaking. The vet said that they were dehydrated* and he has been 'rehydrating them' (with baths and presumably Hydralyte/whatever vets tend to use). When I asked why he thought their scales were flaking, he said that I'm probably just unlucky enough to have two sensitive snakes. The Murray Darling ate at the vets but the childreni hasn't yet. I'm picking them up after work today and the vet has advised I give the childreni regular baths (about an hour in approx 1 inch of water) and exercise him to encourage him to eat again.

*Before anyone flames me, I had been offering them fresh water every 1-2 days and bathed them in water a few times. They were lapping up the water at first, but later seemed disinterested.
Of course, I've learned a valuable lesson from all this and I won't be using Permoxin on them again. Also, the eBay seller sent me a different product instead of Top of Decent, so I have ordered some from Reptile Direct and am currently waiting for it to arrive.

 

[n3xia]

Last update: Both snakes are now noticeably more active and perkier. They are no longer staying in their hides all day and are actively exploring their enclosures, etc. They're not guzzling water any more, either, and both have shed (second time in 2 weeks for the childreni) and are looking much better. Since my last post, I've persisted with bathing them in water (daily at first, then less frequently - still an hour at a time), including a few baths with hydralyte from the local chemist, which seemed to keep their scales softer and less dry for longer. I've also kept a spray bottle near their enclosures and have been spraying them with water whenever I remember to (once or twice a day). The MD struggled a bit with her last shed (she usually sheds in one piece) and had retained pieces on the top of her head (not her eyes) so I helped her out a bit with some water and gently pulled off the old skin. MD now has a few yellowed scales (early signs of scale rot?) so I have stopped bathing her and kept spraying with water once a day or so. Childreni still hasn't eaten, although I haven't tried for about a week. MD still has a good appetite.