Possible mites and sores on snake

[n3xia]

Firstly, sorry to be a pain and post about the ol' mites problem. I promise I have done a forum search and tried to find all the information I can already...

While handling my adult MD on the weekend I noticed quite a few (maybe a dozen) of her scales were lifted up, with what looked like pink sores underneath. I remember she was bitten by some small ants when I let her slither on the grass a few weeks ago, so I thought it might be from that. But then after handling my children's python I noticed two small black insects crawling on my hand. I couldn't see any on the snakes themselves, and when I squished one of the bugs it was soft, not hard like a tick usually is before it fills with blood. I have looked up images of reptile mites and the bugs I saw were at least twice the size of the mites in photos. The bugs were big enough that I could just make out their little legs moving around, and they didn't bite me even though I let them crawl around on my hand for a few minutes. I have a vet appt but it's not til Saturday - is there any advice anyone can offer? I can take photos of the sores tonight and any more of the black bugs if I see some, but I'm not at home at the moment.

 

[n3xia]

Just FYI, the vet (Steve Cutter at The Ark) confirmed mites today - but the ones he pointed out were much smaller than the bugs I saw earlier, so I don't think they were mites. He did say the infestation wasn't bad yet though, thankfully. I'm pretty peeved about it because I did the right thing and got my new snake checked out before putting her near my existing one, but still got mites. I guess it only takes one though.

Anyway, every outlet in Darwin (or at least the 5 pet stores and 2 vets I visited today) seem to be out of reptile mite sprays, and have been for months. Some kind of issue with the wholesaler apparently. So I won't be able to treat them properly for a week or so

 

[MesseNoire]

There was a thread very recently about what people use to treat mites. I have read that people have used very diluted "frontline", Top of Descent, Mac Mite Spray, Permoxin, Betadine and predatory mites.


These should help

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help-38/snake-mite-136419/

And:

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202836

 

[n3xia]

Yeah looks like I'll have to order online at this point so those names will help Thanks

 

[montysrainbow]

how do they catch mites? just curious.

 

[n3xia]

They're highly contagious between snakes, which is why I got my newest snake checked out by a vet before introducing her. She did come from a home where 20-30 reptiles were housed though so who knows if a couple mites were on her enclosure or something when I got her. The vet said geckos can get these mites too though, and my balcony (common hangout for pest geckos) is close to the snake enclosures. I asked if they might have got mites from taking them out on the grass, but he said they do need reptile blood to survive so aren't likely to be in the dirt etc unless there's other reptile hosts nearby. Still a possibility though. And my snake-owner friends pose a risk as well if they've handled my snakes or vice versa, but I haven't seen them recently. Pretty sure mites can hang out on clothing for a short time as well - maybe someone can confirm this.

This is the first time I've seen mites in my 5 years of owning a snake. When it was just my children's python I had no problems because he wasn't exposed to other snakes. So I suspect the mites came with my newer Murray Darling python.

 

[Bushman]

Spraying with Top-Of Descent/Mac-Mite is probably the easiest and is effective.
You need to do it at least twice though. Remove water bowls before-hand and change furnishings if possible.
Permoxin and Frontline are toxic and not really necessary for mites (good for ticks though).

 

[n3xia]

Yeah, but as I mentioned, I haven't been able to get any reptile-mite-specific products locally as they are out of stock. So I have used Permoxin in the meantime, until my TOD arrives in the mail (ordered online). If Permoxin is toxic to snakes, why have so snake owners recommended it just as much as they have TOD for treating reptile mites, and reported successful treatment with their snakes?

 

[Cockney_Red]

Permoxin is fine, and at the right dilution rate will not harm your snake

 

[andynic07]

I would imagine all treatments that are meant for killing things(mites,tick,fleas) at a higher dosage than recommended would be toxic to the host animal if ingested.

 

[n3xia]

I just used 50ml to 10L bucket, as advised in another thread by someone who had used it on their snakes without issue.

 

[n3xia]

Yesterday I did everything people had described in the above threads that Fractal_man linked to. Basically, anything people had said they had tried and their snakes were fine with. This included spraying the snakes (away from their face) with the diluted 50ml:10L Permoxin, in combination with what my vet recommended (oiling up the snakes with baby oil), but was quite distressed when I was re-oiling the snakes today and discovered their scales were coming off! Or rather, the colour was flaking off... scales were still there but off white in colour. My Murray Darling also seemed quite distressed (huffing/breathing a lot and panicking when I had bathed her in a weak betadine+water solution) and/or in pain - I could hear faint squeals that I have heard them make before when they have been in pain. My childreni also lost a few scales, but not as many as the MD. I'm thinking it was the Permoxin, because I noticed some loose 'scales' in the tubs I had been keeping them in before the betadine bath, and when I just used the oil by itself, their scales weren't coming off. I was pretty upset and I really hope I haven't caused them any more pain and that their scales will recover before/at their next shed Anyway, just thought I'd post for the benefit of anyone who thought using even heavily diluted Permoxin directly on the snake was a good idea.

 

[Bushman]

I'm sorry to hear about your snakes. I did warn you.
Thanks for reporting the results back. How did you apply the Permoxin? How long did you leave it on their skin for?
Did you thoroughly wash the Permoxin off the snakes?

 

[n3xia]

I used some fancy looking spray bottle from Bunnings that sprays in a fine mist. The snakes already had baby oil on them when I gave them a quick spray (maybe 2-3 squirts each snake) before going to work. I washed it off when I got home (12 hours later) in a tea-coloured Betadine bath (approx 24-29C), gently rubbed them down with a clean towel and oiled them up again.

Considering there were no reptile-mite-specific treatments available to me for at least a week following vet diagnosis, and that other APS users had reported using Permoxin "without any issues even on death adders", and "both on snakes and for spraying cages," I don't think it's fair that you keep reminding me that Permoxin is a bad idea, etc. Perhaps it wasn't the product itself, but my technique that was the issue. Still, I did read as much as I could about how others had used Permoxin (dilution ratios, etc) before doing so.

 

[saintanger]

stop using the permoxin, baby oil and betadine. all 3 are overkill. wait till you get the mite spray, remove everything including substrate as there might be mites hiding in there and spray the enclosure, spray your snake except for the face/ head. leave the enclosure open for 1 hour to air out then put her in wait 24 hours before you put water/ substrate and ornaments back in. you can put newspaper in just before you pop her back in. works every time for me.

 

[n3xia]

I'm only using baby oil now... the Permoxin was used once - following the initial cleaning out of the enclosures/surrounding area (Sunday), and the second betadine bath (yesterday) was to help remove the Permoxin. I haven't seen a moving mite anywhere since Sunday and will be applying the baby oil daily until this Sunday, when I repeat the vacuuming/spraying enclosures & surrounding area. Sound acceptable?

 

[Tesla]

I'm only using baby oil now... the Permoxin was used once - following the initial cleaning out of the enclosures/surrounding area (Sunday), and the second betadine bath (yesterday) was to help remove the Permoxin. I haven't seen a moving mite anywhere since Sunday and will be applying the baby oil daily until this Sunday, when I repeat the vacuuming/spraying enclosures & surrounding area. Sound acceptable?

Not really considering there are reptile specific application which would work not only more effectively but also pose less of a risk regarding your reptile's health. I don't understand the point in lathering in oil when re-infestation is more or less imminent.
Buy 2 cans of TOD, follow the directions, done deal.

 

[saintanger]

if scales are falling off or flaking and losing colour, you should not use the baby oil as the rubbing wen applying will make more fall and stress her out and be painful. if it were my snake i'd leave it alone till the mite spray arrived.

 

[n3xia]

Not really considering there are reptile specific application which would work not only more effectively but also pose less of a risk regarding your reptile's health.

I suggest you read the rest of the thread before posting. There were no reptile-mite-specific products available locally, and haven't been for months. I think some of you need to realise how small Darwin is relative to other capital cities, too. We don't exactly have a market for predatory mites (and hence, no suppliers) and regular post usually takes about a week. Even 'express post' is 1-2 days longer because we're outside of the next day network. In fact I'd be surprised if the NT even allowed the importing of predatory mites by individuals because our govt is pretty determined to protect our parks/native wildlife from any potential pests.

if scales are falling off or flaking and losing colour, you should not use the baby oil as the rubbing wen applying will make more fall and stress her out and be painful. if it were my snake i'd leave it alone till the mite spray arrived.

Their skin looked dry after a day of them slithering around and rubbing the oil off on things. I didn't want to just leave it to get even drier and probably flake even more. The flaking has reduced noticeably today when I oiled them up again.

 

[Darlyn]

I admit I haven't read the whole thread, cos I'm lazy. I found the best way to get rid of them is to swim your snake through diluted betadine and water. Put him in a safe place. Whack enclosure and contents in your bathroom. Let off a one of those cans of poison, bombs, whatever they are called. Leave them overnight, wash them. Then whack him back in. I tried various things, but this worked for me after a few attempts.