Primary school teachers

[Forensick]

funny that someone pointed out paracetemol....
one of the most dangerous drugs available in australia, legal and illicit.

and is illegal in many countries because its so dangerous.

and TEENAGERS!!!
do drugs if you want.
i find marajuana boring as hell.... take a nap, to me it felt the same.
party pill type drugs... you feel weird and fake....
tobacco... you do ACTUALY look and smell bad... so go for your life, but a non smoker wont go near you, and we are the majority these days.
alcohol, like most people, you act like a fool, and if everyone else wasn't acting like a fool too, you'd be embarassed, fortunately non drinkers wont want to go out with you often, so no one will remember you being a moron.
painkillers.... yes they can be fun, but usually means you will be desensitived, so if your appendix comes out it will HURT coz the doedine won't work.

oh and if you are on this stuff at school, while most of it wont have a direct long term effect on you physically/mentally. missing/not paying attention to classes WILL, believe it or not that math stuff helps, so does english when you try and write employment letters, and history and science help make you interesting and make it easier to understand the world at large.
and again trust me.... getting drunk on sunday night makes monday a write off

 

[moosenoose]

Do you think it is acceptable for primary school teachers to experiment with hard illegal drugs?

Really good for the art teacher methinks

 

[moosenoose]

 

[cris]

Moosey, i wasnt sugesting it would apply for art teachers, who would be left :lol:

The teacher was not a friend i dont even know them.

Junglist, why do you(and others) keep comparing extremely restrained use of MDMA(in a form generally unavaible) to extreme alcohol use? Obviously drinking a carton a day is going to be worse than taking a small amount of MDMA every few months.
Also since you seem to know how much can be used without any long term effects why dont you tell us? If you dont know how can you say any is safe?
Ppl have been drinking alcohol for hundreds or thousands of years and it is well known what it can do in varying amounts. MDMA has only just started to be widely used very little is known about the seriousness of longterm effects.

How do you know the damage they have done to themselves has been through the use of pills?

Cant be proven, its just what they say and in the case of at least one person who ended up in a mental institute the docters opinion too. Strangely though it exactly matches the side effects suspected(not proven in human experiments because they dont do them these days) to be caused.

 

[slim6y]

Buck, i meant whilst i was there with them, nobody has ever had any issues, and nobody i speak to now, or have ever spoken to, has ever had any problems whatsoever.

550000 Australians use ecstacy every year, and i am yet to hear of a single person dying from an overdose of MDMA. It just doesn't happen.

There are several cases of death (but perhaps attributed to impurities) in NZ...

 

[buck]

funny that someone pointed out paracetemol....
one of the most dangerous drugs available in australia, legal and illicit.

and is illegal in many countries because its so dangerous.

Funny I can remember my Doctor once telling me that "paracetemol is the safest drug in the world!!!". This was in reply to my asking about a srcipt that was written out for Paramax.

 

[MrBredli]

MDMA has been around for quite some time. It has really exploded in Australia in the past 10 years, so much so that we are now the ecstacy capital of the world, with more Aussies per capita consuming ecstacy then anywhere else in the world. I can introduce you to people who have been using ecstacy every weekend for the past 5 years and they are as normal as you or i. I can introduce you to people who used to get on the pills when i was just a baby and they are just fine. It is really only the people who lose control and smoke 30 bongs a day, snort 10 lines of coke a day, drink from the minute the wake up to the moment the pass out, smoke ice for 5 days straight etc... These are the people who have major problems. But it is a very small minority of the drug-using population. The good thing about MDMA is that a) it is not physically addictive and b) it can't be taken 10 times a day, 7 days a week like alcohol or marajuana. After having a couple of pills your serontonin levels are depleted, thus taking another pill will have very little affect. To feel the full power of E again you really need to wait at least 2 weeks before consuming again which makes this drug so much harder to be abused, especially when compared to alcohol and marajuana.

 

[MrBredli]

There are several cases of death (but perhaps attributed to impurities) in NZ...

Yes most certainly due to either a) adulterants in the pills, b) exhaustion/dehydration (dancing too much and not rehydrating), c) water intoxification, d) using a cocktail of drugs or e) a pre-existing condition.

It has been stated that to overdose from MDMA you would need to consume something in the range of 30-50 pills.

 

[slim6y]

funny that someone pointed out paracetemol....
one of the most dangerous drugs available in australia, legal and illicit.

and is illegal in many countries because its so dangerous.

Sorry - That statement seems very ill informed.

1) Paracetamol is not illegal, as far as i am aware in any country on this planet - unless for religious reasons. Please show me a link that tells us where paracetamol has been made illegal.

2) Paracetamol is harmless when taken at the stated dose. Irreversible liver damage can occur from the enzymes your liver uses to break down the paracetomol when used in conjuction with some other medicines or prlonged use.

3) Paracetomol is highly toxic to cats, their live can not break down paracetomol at all.

4) Asprin (acetyl sacyillic acid) was originally derived from willow bark many hundreds of years ago - it is now synthetically made and has numoerous therapeutic (proven) uses. It is similar to paracetomol in every way.

5) Illicit means: Not sanctioned by custom or law; unlawful.

So is paracetomol an illicit drug? Well, being legal and illicit would merely be a contradiction I would think

Please, don't throw away your aspro clear tabs, nor your panadol packets. At least one of my two years studying toxicology was to study the effects of paracetomol. For an entire year...

I am not going into detail, but lets put it this way, in high doses it is deadly, the correct dose for short term there is no side effects at all.

Forensick - Please tell us what it is you study and where you get some of these proposturous claims (I am still getting over the one you said about politicians and rape...).

And finally - the promotion of the use of drugs is silly... There's no 'do it if you want' about it... That does not conform to a well informed choice... In fact that goes against everything that junglist*, earthling and myself have said abotu harm minimisation.

And finally - your appendix should be fairly safe from a whacking great dose of codine.. your liver may not be so well off...

I look forward to a smartened reply with some answers to the questions. And I do apologise if I come across rude - i seriosuly don't mean to be - I do not mean any offence, but some of these claims just don't add up. I am one of these people who - if I can see the facts, can be turned to agree...

Cheers

PS - Stay at school and don't do drugs (not until you can make an informed choice and even then, be very weary about what you could be doing short and long term... see a lot of advice from people in the KNOW!)

 

[Forensick]

er...
rape means to take by force.... there is no sexual connotation in the word itself.
they take money, opinions from you by force...
and footballers, well... the common kind of rape...
bit of a pun you know

i study dietetics, which is based heavily in biochemistry.

panadol is illegal in greece

 

[Forensick]

oh, the appendix coedine thing...

if you remove the paracetamol from a coedine tab (i wont mention how) you can take enough coedine to give you a huge high.
but you build up a tollerance, so if you need it, re appendix, it won't work, and you will be in pain.


side not about asprin, scientists still not 100% sure how it works, just that it does.

and the amount of paracetamol required to start doing permanant liver damage is remarkably low, and paracetamol overdose is actually quite a "common" suicide method (or at least was.... it is quite painfull and slow)

 

[slim6y]

er...
rape means to take by force.... there is no sexual connotation in the word itself.
they take money, opinions from you by force...
and footballers, well... the common kind of rape...
bit of a pun you know

i study dietetics, which is based heavily in biochemistry.

panadol is illegal in greece

Prove it!!!

Panadol, paracetomol and all it's closest relatives are freely available in Greece... in fact, as far as I am aware some leading studies on paracetomol and its therapeutic uses is studied widely in greece... look it up if you don't beleive me!

Where did you hear that tripe from? Who ever said it is ill informed, and if I was you I would have questioned it... Paracetomol, as far as I am aware, is not illegal ANYWHERE in the world and I would be suprised if you can find it is... But, I am open to suprises...

And thank you for clearing up the 'rape' statements, i now say ahhhhhh I get it!!!

 

[Forensick]

hang on....
looking it up....
it was in the early 90's
i have it in an old high school text....

can't find anything new....
tell you in a few hours

 

[Lozza]

What teachers do in their private life is their business -same as anyone else.

There are no regulations as to what goes into these pills -anything could be put in for all you know it could be ratsak and washing powder this is what kills people, it definitely isnt pure MDMA
They should just legalise drugs that way people know what they're getting if the do choose to take them and it puts the crims out of business

 

[slim6y]

oh, the appendix coedine thing...

if you remove the paracetamol from a coedine tab (i wont mention how) you can take enough coedine to give you a huge high.
but you build up a tollerance, so if you need it, re appendix, it won't work, and you will be in pain.


side not about asprin, scientists still not 100% sure how it works, just that it does.

and the amount of paracetamol required to start doing permanant liver damage is remarkably low, and paracetamol overdose is actually quite a "common" suicide method (or at least was.... it is quite painfull and slow)

the first comment is a little weird... but i think that deserves a what ever in the nicest possible way....

Scientists are pretty well sure about neuro receptors and where asprin works... in fact I seem to recall being taught the pathways - admitidely I am quite ready for bed - so tonight is not the night I go back through my uni notes looking for it - but hey, if Ravi Goonaratne was wrong... So be it... I doubt somehow he was... He was a leading toxicologist - so I was led to believe anyhow...

And finally - yes - paracetamol is used in over doses - but liver damage does not occur at low doses unless in conjuction with alcohol or some other medications... I think you will find that that is correct... By itself, with adequate diet and water intake, paracetomol is harmless - and yes, again, i have the studies to prove it... And it's late for me - so until tomorrow - thank you for clearing that up. It really is a bit off topic... but none the less, good discussion. Cheers.

Nun nite... (all you on MDMA are probably bouncing off the walls right now!)

 

[fishbot]

Computer says no...

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=46669

A quick google will tell you that Athens Uni conducts paracetamol research...it's unlikely that the product is illegal within a nation that researches it.

 

[slim6y]

What teachers do in their private life is their business -same as anyone else.

There are no regulations as to what goes into these pills -anything could be put in for all you know it could be ratsak and washing powder this is what kills people, it definitely isnt pure MDMA
They should just legalise drugs that way people know what they're getting if the do choose to take them and it puts the crims out of business

Go back a few posts and look at the damage legalisation does... legalising isn't the answer...

Harm minimisation as suggested is... legalisation does more damage than good...

 

[slim6y]

Computer says no...

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=46669

A quick google will tell you that Athens Uni conducts paracetamol research...it's unlikely that the product is illegal within a nation that researches it.

I was aware of these studies - I've followed them for a few years, which is why I questioned that very thread - paracetomol is not banned in greece!!!

Thaks for backing it up tho... Good to have evidence sometimes!

 

[Earthling]

Just found this link http://www.justthinktwice.com/factfiction/LegalizationWorks.cfm

Quote from the link "After allowing marijuana to be sold in certain cafes, the Government of the Netherlands reconsidered its legalization policy. Consumption of marijuana had nearly tripled from 15 to 44% among 18-20 year olds. "
Definately interesting to read and blows a huge hole in a certain argument

One thing to remember about statistics is that they can prove whatever you want them to prove, They can be manipulated.

"From 15% to 44% among 18-20 yearolds"....this would include people who have had one smoketo try it and never did again. It does not mean 44% are potheads who smoke all day long. Without those stats this stat is not helpfull but rather just another fear device.
REMEMBER we are looking at reducing HARM, not USE.

The link also says"The number of Dutch marijuana coffeehouses dropped from 1179 in 1997 to 782 in 2002—decreasing 34% in five years." Ummmm........they one minute say an increase in use then they say coffehouses are closing........if the 'coffeehouse' was profitable as of extra consumers one would think they wouldnt close yeah?! Dribble is starting to gush from their pens.

They also wrote this: "Kids were getting mixed messages about the dangers of marijuana during the 1990's when the decriminalization discussion was going on. According to the November 24, 2004 Canada Addiction Survey, marijuana use among Canadians has doubled since 1994. A decade earlier, 7.4% of respondents indicated they had used marijuana; usage levels are currently 14%. The study also indicates that there has been an increase in the number of Canadians using an injectable drug: the number rose from 132,000 in 1994 to 269,000 in 2004." Two things, firstly same as I wrote before, it does not mean these people are potheads or everyday IV users. Harm-Minimisation is about reducing HARM not necesarilly USE.
Secondly whilst I was working in Canada I did not see anywhere advertisements or pamphlets or anything regarding SAFE DRUG USE. This is what should be happening in these countries if they adopt the full harm-minimisation approach. Its has to be an all or nothing approach...government policy of well we like that bit.. but oh not that bit so we will only do these few things does not work in this scenario. Also what can not be discounted is the fact that as drugs become more accepted by society (laws relaxed) IV users amongst others will be more willing to come forward when questioned about their use for statistics. it does not necesarilly mean there are MORE users.

Remember the main objective of harm reduction is to mitigate the potential dangers and health risks associated with the behaviours themselves. Not stop people using.

EDUCATE.

 

[Earthling]

Just found this link http://www.justthinktwice.com/factfiction/LegalizationWorks.cfm
Definately interesting to read and blows a huge hole in a certain argument

regarding that link they also said this:
"No country alone, (as the Dutch have found to their cost) can operate a policy which is substantially more liberal than neighbours, without suffering from “drug tourism” or, as in the Dutch situation, a larger pool of drugs-linked criminality than it would otherwise have.there is the big lie that legalising drugs will take the criminality out of supply. What nonsense. Illegal traders who pay no taxes of any sort can always undercut legitimate traders.”

Ummmm....duh..the first bit is a no brainer...who would have thought a drug user in another country wouldnt holiday in a neighbouring country will lax drug laws. Australia wont have that problem Im afraid. Bit isolated which makes that argument invalid.
As to the second bit mentioning illegal traders. Again no brainer....duh...as long as there are consumers there will always be businesses, dealers, individuals trying to sell cheaper products to make a buck. Economics my friend. Same gig with cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers.....should we ban them?
The important thing to remember that offering the consumer a legitamate place to buy their drug of choice means they do not have to associate in any form with the criminal eliment if they choose not to. Whilst today if you want to use a drug thats not legalised, criminals are the only people you can go to for a supply.

That website also had this dribble:" The Swiss Experiment: Tolerant drug policies in Switzerland have resulted in an influx of drug users. In 1987, the Swiss Government permitted drug use and sales in a part of Zurich called Platzspitz, or “Needle Park.” By 1992, over 20,000 drug users congregated in the park, and the surrounding areas were overrun with crime. The park has been shut down and the experiment has been terminated. "
Again.....Duh..hindsight is a wonderfull thing.
New Law #1908/5: Lets say from now on in Brisbane you can only sell and use your bought alcohol in the waterfront park in Newfarm. What ...:shock: who woulda thought a huge influx of people and crime would result......thats just crazy!

This site, as so far all sites, that I have found that are against harm-mininmisation lack valid argument and/or proof.

Slim I hope this wasnt the site that you mentioned proved Legalisation is not the way to go.........:shock: .