Primary school teachers

[Hickson]

panadol is illegal in greece

From memory, it's codeine that's illegal in Greece. The instance in the 1990's you are referring to was a Qantas stewardess who went on holiday to Greece with Panadeine in her luggage, and Greek Customs found it.



Hix

 

[slim6y]

Slim I hope this wasnt the site that you mentioned proved Legalisation is not the way to go.........:shock: .

Nope - I did not - I just saw a site that recommened more research to be done before we jump to any conclusions - Nothing about that stuff.

And anyhow, even if I did, you bring a valid argument to that site to discredit it in some way or stance. As I suggested, if I am wrong, unlike some others on this site, I am free to admit it and change my outlook.

But I guess we all can't be perfect like me

 

[slim6y]

From memory, it's codeine that's illegal in Greece. The instance in the 1990's you are referring to was a Qantas stewardess who went on holiday to Greece with Panadeine in her luggage, and Greek Customs found it.



Hix

Again, i don't think it is illegal, it's a 'prescription only' drug or restricted in some way. As it is available over the counter here in Australia and many other parts of the world (at around 8mg per tab, and up to 20mg apparently) in panadeine and other brand name pain killers, then people forget that you're not allowed to take it into Greece.

It is therefore a form of 'smuggling' just like bringing pseudoephedrine in your sinus tabs into our country - Highly illegal even if you bought it over the counter in your local South African store...

 

[Earthling]

And anyhow, even if I did, you bring a valid argument to that site to discredit it in some way or stance. As I suggested, if I am wrong, unlike some others on this site, I am free to admit it and change my outlook.
But I guess we all can't be perfect like me

hahaha...yes many humans are afraid of change. Im glad your not, you will grow...who knows where you will end up..thats the fun of life.
Psychologists and Psychoanalysts and many others have been making a lot of money out of people being afraid to change. Psychologist Scott Peck believes that its because of peoples laziness that they wont change...its easier to sit in your old belief system then question and change it. Any new ideas such as we are discussing in this thread are too big for lazy people to process, to many changes in their belief system, means too much work..easier to sit and be lazy. But NO I hear many people say, I work 12 hour days and then do the housework and look after 36 kids and 4 goats and.....mmm....thats just keeping busy, busy not working on the things most important for human growth. Some people wil go to extraordinary lengths to not face their true self and keep so busy they have no time to think about......life.

Real work begins when you work on yourself and whats in your head.

Thats work.

 

[Lucas]

Since when has using recreational drugs not been an offence?

 

[junglist*]

I never said anything about the affects people experience whilst on drugs, i just said that people working with children shouldnt be using it.

It is a known fact that 2 days after taking mdma or amphetamines your seratonin levels are so low that you experience what is known as 'Suicide Tuesday' or 'Suicide Monday' (depending on which day you took the drugs). From my experience i would not like to have these feelings while working with children as it would greatly affect my work and therefore have a negative outcome for the children.

Do not tell me that my opinion isn't valid (this is a public forum) and do not tell me that i'm not educated .

No, incorrect again julie ann, it can get that low if you have gone over the top, but its an absolute crock to say that everyone feels suicidal on a monday/tuesday after taking MDMA on a weekend. If you have a predisposition to htese sorts of conditions/feelings, you shouldnt be taking the substance, again exactly what the harm minimisation approach is about.

I will continue to tell you that on this matter your opinion is invalid, as is your obvious level of education this topic.

 

[junglist*]

oh and if you take any type of drug you should be shot i have no time for losers that take drugs

ever taken an asprin?? salycilic acid?? (same thing)

Ever consumed a single glass of alcoholic beverage??
Ever had a coffee or a tea??

This is the sort of stigma that is the problem with having acceptance of drug addiction as a crime, instead of a health issue

 

[slim6y]

No, incorrect again julie ann, it can get that low if you have gone over the top, but its an absolute crock to say that everyone feels suicidal on a monday/tuesday after taking MDMA on a weekend. If you have a predisposition to htese sorts of conditions/feelings, you shouldnt be taking the substance, again exactly what the harm minimisation approach is about.

I will continue to tell you that on this matter your opinion is invalid, as is your obvious level of education this topic.

I am not critical of your stance here - as it appears to be realistic (to a certain degree). But I am going tobe clear as a whistle - your arrogance does nothing for anyone here. it is more difficult for you to remove the stigma that we have perceived if you tell people that their level of education is bellow yours and that their opinion is invalid??? Not clever... Arguing a point can be done with minimal arrogance.

Let's see if you can apologise for those comments as they were uncalled for...

 

[junglist*]

Well if we are to be frank.... from this and other threads that I have witnessed your participation you seem to be one of the most arrogant people I have ever had dealings with. You sit there dishing out personal attacks from the safety of your computer. Well can you please do me a favour and supply some EVIDENCE of all of these stats that you are quoting, just for the morons out there . Any FOOL can sit there and type numbers- lets see some reference to back it up!!!!!!!
I think the way in which you totally dismissed the link supplied by Slim6y to the NZ site says alot about the kind of person you are.

If you would bother to get over your ego and read my post properly you would see that I never said that alcohol and tabacco were any less of a problem. I actually agree with you on several points. What I do have a problem with is someone who proclaims to be a chemist coming on to a family site saying that drugs are ok and don't listen to the governments propaganda.

How can you honestly site there and say that E poses no long term effects? How can anyone make that sort of statement from the comparitively small amount of time it has become a recreational drug?
I'm sure they were once saying the same thing about tabacco. Totally harmless!!!!

Yes, i am arrogant on this issue, but thats because ive been studying the area for about 12 years now, objectvely. I did not say oncethat MDMA was good for you, but that it can have some positive uses, and to put a blanket ban on a substance just because someone might abuse it is moronic, especially when you consider the governments stance on far more dangerous drugs than this one.

The figures are out there, if you claim that my arrogance is unfounded, find the numbers to back it up. Do not try to get into an intellectual argument with me because - and i am being generally arrogant now, but not without due cause - you will lose.

All your argument consists of is the general hysteria drugs are bad nonsense, and we will stigmatise anyone who makes a stand against it.

I can think for myself, i question the validity of everything that authority figures tell me, while you seem content to have the wool taped firmly over your eyes, and the ear plugs put into your ears.
I have not once said that a drug is good, the simple fact of the matter is that to personify such an inanimate object is about as silly as believing that someone who is a virgin can give birth, or that once youa re dead, you can live again.

 

[junglist*]

Just found this link http://www.justthinktwice.com/factfiction/LegalizationWorks.cfm

Quote from the link "After allowing marijuana to be sold in certain cafes, the Government of the Netherlands reconsidered its legalization policy. Consumption of marijuana had nearly tripled from 15 to 44% among 18-20 year olds. "

Definately interesting to read and blows a huge hole in a certain argument

Yes but as a whole arugument, and the total population of smokers, america and australia have approximately 250% more smokers per head of capita than the netherlands, irrespective of the specious statistics you just posted.

 

[Lucas]

I'm anti drug no matter who is using it. I've seen it destroy too many lives. My little brother is an Ice addict, 2 friends have died as a result of herion. Countless people I want to school are now dealers and in and out of jail. I've been robbed by junkies.

Drugs are bad M'kay

 

[Earthling]

I'm anti drug no matter who is using it. I've seen it destroy too many lives. My little brother is an Ice addict, 2 friends have died as a result of herion. Countless people I want to school are now dealers and in and out of jail. I've been robbed by junkies.

Drugs are bad M'kay

Now if thats not proof that the current anti-drug outlook the Government has is NOT working I dont know what is!

 

[junglist*]

Earthling - this was not in relation to harm minimisation - was in relation to junglist* suggesting legalisation... By no means would I deny the fact that harm minimisation is essential.. and with that, legalisation therefore is not required!

Did you graduate from primary school slimy???

The legislation needs to be created to take money away fropm the police and customs aervices and put it to work where t is actually needed. A proactive approach needs to be taken, not a reactive approach as is being taken at the moment.

Have we as a species not learnt anything from the expriences of america with prohibition?? Or Manchurian china with opium??

These substances cannot be eradicated, and so we must stopp fighting the losing battle, but start managing the drugs so that people who do become addicted do not become deletorius to society as a whole.

Property crime is a big one that makes old conservative grey folk say we need more cops on the street.

However, if organised crime were not setting the prices, then the cost would be much lower, and the burglaries would not need to be performed to feed the kids, or the habit etc. Were there free counselling and addiction treatment facilities for ayone who felt they had a problem, or were locked in a vicious cycles of addiction and crime, then would it not be beneficial to have these people become productive members of society again??

An inanimate thing is not the problem here, but it is the pathetically inadequate measures being taken by the governemnts in relation to this nonsensical "war on drugs" which i might add is laughable considering especially with heroin, the americans allow afghans to grow poppy crops right outside the major firebase in kabul.

When will the majority of the populace see that we are being lied to, and that there are no facts behind the lies.

A simple example for everyone should be the case of marijuana. why is it banned??> Because the coton and chemical processing industries did not like people producing better fibre, twice a year for less than half the cost. Hence a smear campaign was run against a wonderfully useful herb, and now we have to put up with a crop that uses 10 times more water than hemp to grow (in the 2nd driest continent on earth, thats just stupid) and needs ridiculous amounts of chemical processing to enable the use of cotton as a commercial material.

 

[Lucas]

it has nothing to do with the Gov't. Its through personal experiences that I've made my opinions

 

[Earthling]

it has nothing to do with the Gov't. Its through personal experiences that I've made my opinions

For sure Lucas..totally understandable.
Im saying the current policies our Government has actually assisted:
"My little brother is an Ice addict, 2 friends have died as a result of herion. Countless people I want to school are now dealers and in and out of jail. I've been robbed by junkies."

If our current laws were solving and stopping the drug abuse and asssisting to solve the drug crimes, you would not have been subjected to such pain in your life.

 

[Earthling]

I'm anti drug no matter who is using it. I've seen it destroy too many lives. My little brother is an Ice addict, 2 friends have died as a result of herion. Countless people I want to school are now dealers and in and out of jail. I've been robbed by junkies.

Drugs are bad M'kay

Your view on drugs is totally understandable.
You touch a hotplate when its hot and you get burned....your not in a hurry to touch it again.
You go and touch a hotplate right now that you know is cool...your body/mind will put up a 'NO DONT DO IT' reaction.
I would suggest a similarity with your Drug views. You were burnt not once..not twice...but several times....your body/mind has a distinct aversion from drugs after being burnt that many times. Totally understandable.

 

[slim6y]

Did you graduate from primary school slimy???

ANSWER: No - When I went to school there was no such thing as graduation, it was for people who didn't want to do apprenticships. Are you just plain arrogant - cause you don't seem to have social skills that would suggest otherwise.
The legislation needs to be created to take money away fropm the police and customs aervices and put it to work where t is actually needed. A proactive approach needs to be taken, not a reactive approach as is being taken at the moment.

Answer - CORRECT - As with the water problem, unless you throw HUGE amounts of money at it nothing is going to happen. Media also needs to be better informed, afterall it is them spreading the maliciousness above the government who actually, in some countries try harm minimisation amongst the society to what they can maintain and still be in power.
Have we as a species not learnt anything from the expriences of america with prohibition?? Or Manchurian china with opium??

No is the answer to that! I would be suprised if we learn about global warming and do something about that too!

These substances cannot be eradicated, and so we must stopp fighting the losing battle, but start managing the drugs so that people who do become addicted do not become deletorius to society as a whole.

Answer: Sometimes yes, giving up seems to be the only hope - but we're not giving up so it's not a losing battle - prescription may actually work you know...

Property crime is a big one that makes old conservative grey folk say we need more cops on the street.

YES!

However, if organised crime were not setting the prices, then the cost would be much lower, and the burglaries would not need to be performed to feed the kids, or the habit etc. Were there free counselling and addiction treatment facilities for ayone who felt they had a problem, or were locked in a vicious cycles of addiction and crime, then would it not be beneficial to have these people become productive members of society again??

Answer - Full disagreeance here - look at my thread on legalisation - control of cost doesn't make it accessible to the petty criminal... They will commit crime no mater what.

An inanimate thing is not the problem here, but it is the pathetically inadequate measures being taken by the governemnts in relation to this nonsensical "war on drugs" which i might add is laughable considering especially with heroin, the americans allow afghans to grow poppy crops right outside the major firebase in kabul.

Yes, afghans have an unbelievable easy road to growing the beautiful poppy, and the takibhan had managed to stop that - funny how tables turn...

When will the majority of the populace see that we are being lied to, and that there are no facts behind the lies.

I would say we're not being lied to - but some of the truths are not being told. Careful with lies here - it's a strong word. I doubt that all the stuff you see as truths, regardless of your studies, education, background etc, are all truths.. I would suggest some are infact mistruths...

A simple example for everyone should be the case of marijuana. why is it banned??> Because the coton and chemical processing industries did not like people producing better fibre, twice a year for less than half the cost. Hence a smear campaign was run against a wonderfully useful herb, and now we have to put up with a crop that uses 10 times more water than hemp to grow (in the 2nd driest continent on earth, thats just stupid) and needs ridiculous amounts of chemical processing to enable the use of cotton as a commercial material.

In NZ it is not banned, NZ is one of the most forward thinking countries int he world and can see the ability to use hemp as fibre. Shame many countries can't follow suit. Silly isn't it?

Finally junglist* if you wish to continue insults, don't try to make yourself look like an idiot - you're obviously intelligent and have done the research, anyone can see that. Insults don't allow people to like what you've said.

Me, I;m thick skinned, so if you want to insult me - do so - do it through PM where none of us will get infractions... The challenge is on!!!

I accept your apoligies for your arogance and uncalled for comments... Lets move on and have a party now.

 

[cris]

Lucas, did the ppl you mention set out to destroy themselves with drugs or did they just end up doing that after "experimenting" with them?

Now if thats not proof that the current anti-drug outlook the Government has is NOT working I dont know what is!

explain how this could have been solved by the government?
I personally think alot of ppl are encouraged to use drugs by our governments current approach, which is to allow ppl to use drugs and only use the pathetically soft hand of the law on big time dealers.

 

[Lucas]

Cris, I think it was was a case experimentation gone wrong mixed with an untouchable attitude.


It's ironic. Talking about drugs. I just found out my brother got raided by at 9 am this morning

 

[Earthling]

explain how this could have been solved by the government?
I personally think alot of ppl are encouraged to use drugs by our governments current approach, which is to allow ppl to use drugs and only use the pathetically soft hand of the law on big time dealers.

yes cris I totally agree with you, not only does the Governments current approach allow people to use drugs but also to selfabuse to the point of death, including hurting and killing people around them.

cris i have to question have you read and understood peoples posts in this thread? If so my answer has already been written several times by myself and others. Harm-minimisation to say it once again. Please read this thread and responses and the links and even do some more research on the subject and answers will soon dawn.

So........if you feel harm-minimisation isnt the answer, what is your view on the answer to our 'percieved' drug problem?