QLD Museum web site

[craig23]

Just was looking at the museum web site and seen this page. Ive seen it many times before but something hit me as being wrong this time.. here is the link.

http://www.qmuseum.qld.gov.au/features/snakes/dangerous/index.asp

Now according to this page, the small eyed snake is potentially fatal, AND it is listed as being more dangerous than the Rough Scaled Snake, Speckled Brown Snake, and both Hoplocephalus species.

This is news to me. I just looked them up in all my books again, and as I thought, not considered fatal. I consider them as just a painfull bite with some possible illness.

Firstly, it does say it is a list of the potentially dangerous land snakes of Queensland in decreasing order of potential danger. Now I interpret this statement as meaning... if we were to go about our lives normally, and come across a snake, these are the snakes we are most likely to get killed or injured by.. Now this could make scence then.. maybe there is more chance we could be injured or killed by a small eyed snake than by a speckled brown, because speckled browns are very rare in populated areas, and small eyed snakes are quite common.. so the chances of being bitten are increased and bump it up on the list. SO WHY THEN ARE FIERCE SNAKES ON THE TOP?????? I dont care how dangerous they are, they pose very little "potential threat" because they live no where near anyone!!! So, the fact that smalled eyed snakes are above speckled browns and rought scaled snakes, which are proven killers, but below feirce snakes (never killed anyone on record) is a contradiction.

So my point is, if the list was a list of highest toxic venom in QLD in decreasing order, then it doesnt make scence because speckled browns have more toxic venom than small eyed snakes, as does rough scaled snakes.

If it was a list of "potential danger" which would reflect past cases of serious envenomations and fatalities then it is wrong because the Eastern Brown followed by the Eastern Tiger pose the most "potential risk" in australia.

I am tied and its late, the first person to reply to this could prove me an idiot.... but can anyone see my point?

Craig

 

[craig23]

Just done some more reaserch, there is one possible death assosiated with small eyed snake envenomation, several deaths and serious hospitalisation assosiated with rough scaled snake envenomation. Speckled Brown Snakes, well... I know Which one I would rather be bitten by.... Small eyed Snake or Speckled Brown??? not a big decision!!

 

[Fuscus]

The small eyed snakes toxicidy varies between populations with some populations being very dangerous.
The danger rating looks like it is based on the LD50 test which rates a snakes danger on the amount of venom required to kill mice.
IMHO if you include "real-world" factors the Brown is the most dangerous snake in Oz second is the tiger

 

[phantom]

with the small eyes there is only been the one death that is on record in the last 12 years

 

[sxereturn]

Yeah, venom yields and toxicity vary greatly between locations. Similar to Pseudonaja Textilis...the QLD form yields a minimum of three times more than the southern form.

 

[craig23]

that is all very interesting, but i find it hard to belive that a small eyed snake is more toxic, or yeilds more than (whereever you find it) a speckled brown. I will do some more reaserch, int he mean time.. does anyone know for sure? I agree with you Fuscus, the Eastern Brown and Eastern Tiger are the most likley cause of serious envenomation in australia for snakes.. and cause the most fatalities. The Museum site is ranking them more on there "killing power" (toxicity and yeild), even tho it says "potential danger"

I just find it hard to belive that the smalled eyed snake is that far up the ladder. From all other books I have ever read, and some which I have here now, the Speckled Brown, and Rough Scaled Snake are much more dangerous...

 

[sxereturn]

I'll talk to Tim tonight. I don't think Speckled Browns yield much, but also, the museum is obviously wrong.

 

[craig23]

Just read an article on Small Eyed Snakes, says the fatality recorded in assosiation with its bite was a result of exceptional circumstances and a bite normally results in little more than local pain and swelling.

David Williams, whats your opinion?

 

[craig]

And on that list the red bellied black snake is higher on the list that all three of them. Correct me if i'm wrong but there has never been a fatal bite from a red belly.

 

[Fuscus]

Depending on the source RBBS have killed 0,1 or 2 people.
One story I heard is that someone died of a suspected RBBS bite in 1957.