Removing Venom Glands

[snakehandler]

I believe if we go back to the original question there is no mention of a person just a procedure, a procedure which is conducted around the world by licensed vets.

In relation to floppy snakes, this would refer to animals that display no body tone when handled, when we first started to demonstrate we noticed that some of our snakes reacted poorly to public displays...mainly our diamonds, the stress seemed to make them display a lack of body tone and appear floppy, so these snakes were removed from our demonstrations and never used again...over time they picked up and are very healthy now. One of the restrictions of demonstrator permits in Victoria is that we can only own 10 individuals of any one species code, so there is a great deal of stress placed on animals owned by busy demonstrators.....this is something that we have been attempting to rectify for the past 3 years....our company policy is to ensure that all animals are able to rest for at least 7 days after use....with a busy show season, birthday parties, courses and other events that we do.....this is not always possible. Perhaps the snakes you noticed as being floppy needed a rest?

 

[snakehandler]

Getting back to the original point, under the Veteranary Practices Act 1997 (VIC) Section 3 describes:
unprofessional conduct means all or any of the following-

(a) professional conduct which is of a lesser standard than that which the
public might reasonably expect of a registered veterinary
practitioner;

(b) professional conduct which is of a lesser standard than that which
might reasonably be expected of a veterinary practitioner by his or
her peers;

(c) professional misconduct;

(d) infamous conduct in a professional respect;

(e) providing veterinary services of a kind that are excessive,
unnecessary or not reasonably required for an animal's well-being;

(f) a finding of guilt of-

(i) an indictable offence in Victoria, or an equivalent offence in another
jurisdiction;

(ii) an offence which, in the opinion of the Board, makes the veterinary
practitioner unfit to be a registered veterinary practitioner;

(iii) an offence under this Act or the regulations;

(iv) an offence as a veterinary practitioner under any other Act or
regulations;

(g) influencing or attempting to influence the conduct of a veterinary
practice in such a way that an animal's well-being may be compromised;

(h) the contravention of or failure to comply with a condition, limitation
or restriction on the registration of a veterinary practitioner
imposed by or under this Act;

veterinary practice means the practise of veterinary surgery and veterinary
medicine. _______________It can clearly be seen here that the practice is actually illegal in Victoria as it is not required for the animals well being. So this surgery is not permitted in Victoria by practicing vets and only practicing vets can perform such operations legally in Victoria.

 

[Hemiaspis]

The practice of removing venom glands from snakes is disgraceful and is proof that the keeper/handler does not possess the required skills to be interacting with venomous snakes. It has been done here in Victoria by the incredibly irresponsible person mentioned previously, and serveral petitions were launched to attempt to convince the authorities to prosecute this moron.

It has also been shown that many of the tissues in reptiles are capable of autonomy (regeneration), including venom ducts and glands. If the slightest piece of duct or gland remains, the snake can regenerate a functioning gland over time. This has happened in some Naja specimens kept in the States resulting in envenomation. I would doubt most "backyarders" would have the surgical skills to complete the operation effectively.

Although keepers of venomoids argue that the snakes continue to digest food properly, the complete uses and actions of venoms is not completely understood. Another quality of the venom is the antibacterial protection it provides the snake whilst the food is slowing digesting. This was examined in a study done many years ago where it was shown that the venom actually slowed in vitro decompostion.

Venomoiding is a practice we dont want here in Australia and anyone who wants to begin keeping elapids should know that with the right skills and training these animals can be kept and handled in a safe manner. There are some very responsible groups out there (E.R.D & Snakehandler, for example) that run courses to develop the required skills.

Say NO to venomoids,

All the Best.

 

[Colin]

Shame Karma isn't always literal, it'd be nice if one day they found themselves strapped to a board, whacked in the freezer for a while and sliced up in a similar fashion.

Could always try the vasectomy or castration of humans in the same way.............. now THATS Karma!!!!!!

Only if they used a cheese grater to do it and some vinegar to "cleanse" the site.

ditto kersten.. glad to see you back online more often.. Ive missed your posts :lol:

Its a despicable cruel unecessary practice..

It would be a tragedy if and when someone's poor child sees a wild elapid in the bush and tries to grab it like they saw at the "birthday parties" or "demonstrations" - gets bitten and dies.. even though warnings may be given "dont try this at home" etc. you know what kids are like.. children should not be encouraged to handle elapids (venomoids or not) in my opinion.. they should be taught to just move away and leave them alone.

 

[snakehandler]

Again there has been a focus on an individual not the question original question it's time to refocus on the issue not a person

 

[redbellybite]

Hmm this is a very touchy argument and I see that most people are against this mans practices. But I can see both sides of the argument and believe that what this man has done is somewhat of an achievement. I.E breeding the brown sankes etc.

I fail to see what achievment has been made ...to me its plain out over rated cruelty with a twist of scientific hogwash to baffle them with his bullshitz.....In History Hitler and others claimed to do such achievement things as well, only far worse they used humans instead!!

If you had all your teeth ripped out of your head,whilst being held in a head lock no pain relief ,you would survive and could still eat, but it wouldnt be the same now ...

 

[pythons73]

This just shows to me that the person in question hasnt got the animals welfare first,and he isnt capable of handling Elapids without doing this stupity.Theres plenty of people that can and do handle elapids safely ,without ripping their fangs out.BEWARE DONT TRY THIS AT HOME CHILDREN ...

 

[Kersten]

I believe if we go back to the original question there is no mention of a person just a procedure, a procedure which is conducted around the world by licensed vets.

In point of fact the questions simply asks what IS done, not what should be or might be and certainly the distinction between licensed vets and backyard butchers was never made in that post. Yes the conversation has drifted to one notable hacker; however, it may be simply that it is because people don't know how others carry out this practice. Since it's not supposed to be conducted in this country there's really only one person egotistical enough to publicly flout law and share his methods.

While it's true there have been a lot of anti-snakehacker posts, there have also been some pointing out the ideal methods this procedure could be, and in some places are conducted under. So in the end all bases have been covered and I really don't see why it's a problem for people to discuss that which they know. In a departure from the norm the question has been answered, and there have been no arguments.

 

[elapid66]

if its done by a vet i have no problems with it wouldn't mind some myself and yes i have kept elapids but hey thats just me i don't give a rusty bye now

 

[redbellybite]

if its done by a vet i have no problems with it wouldn't mind some myself and yes i have kept elapids but hey thats just me i don't give a rusty bye now

I fail to understand why ? regardless of it being done by a vet ...elapids have venom glands you want to keep them then in my opinion venom glands come with them ...if its all for a safety mode ...so keepers can get complacent around their snakes,then maybe you should stick with pythons but then again they can pack a bite ,so maybe rip their teeth out too and all zoo's should have their animals de /clawed and big canines removed as this is a safety risk too ..but dont worry they can get a vet to do it all

 

[Hemiaspis]

if its done by a vet i have no problems with it wouldn't mind some myself and yes i have kept elapids but hey thats just me i don't give a rusty bye now

If that's the case, it sounds as if you confidence with venomous snakes is no more. Perhaps you should be keeping pythons

 

[moosenoose]

:lol: I don't think Elapid66 has got any venomous snake handling issues

 

[Jonno from ERD]

Nope, just some animal respect issues

 

[elapid66]

Nope, just some animal respect issues

you might be right jonno

 

[benjamind2010]

I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would want a venomoid elapid! Elapids are venomous for a reason - and not only to kill and subdue their prey items, but also for another reason that is less obvious, such as eliminating risks of bacterial infection during a slower than normal digestion period.

The venom is not only there to kill and secure prey, but it also plays a role in the digestion of prey, particularly in the retardation of decomposition of the prey item in the digestive tract. In colder climates this is critical to the complete digestion of the prey item, and important in helping to reduce the risk of the snake developing gut/intestinal infections resulting from any bacterial growth that occurs during decomposition.

Obviously, as long as the snake has access to plenty of heat as in tropical climates and obviously captive environments, it shouldn't have any problems with digesting any prey items. But in colder climates the snake often doesn't have that luxury, hence the venom being beneficial due to it's germicidal effect.

I think the idea of surgically removing venom gland to be repugnant and an act of animal cruelty. Those who participate in this should be dealt with under State laws, and I'm sure there is a code of practice under veterinary law that stipulates that such surgery is 100% unnecessary and therefore illegal.

If anyone wants to keep elapids they should learn how to handle them and keep them properly, including respect. In my case I would not keep them at all since they tend to stress more easily than pythons. In saying that, I would love to keep death adders but my respect for their lethal authority keeps my interest at a distance.

 

[Boidae]

I seriously hope one of Raymond Hoser's 'venomiods' venom glands regenerate, Ive had just about enough of this tosser.
What the hell is he thinking doing that in front of all those kids, he can say 'dont try this at home' as much as he likes, but kids dont listen to what you say, they copy by example and do what you do. I really hope none of those kids try to pick one up in the wild because they have seen 'experts' like him doing it :|