Reptiles in NSW Pet Shops - The Debate

[Sdaji]

It just seems you dont want to accept it IS going to happen.

:lol:

So which is it? Illiteracy or a poor memory? :lol:

 

[dragozz]

Yeah thats fine, but wouldn't you rather them on display?

Ive been in at Troys shop several times, and so many people come through the doors and expect to see something there. (On display) the amount of times he has to explain 'No, there illegal to be ....... blah blah blah, he might as well have a tape recording. Then the potential customer goes, oh, ok, and walks out the door.

ye its a potential only, so if they really want a reptile I'm sure they will look into it so no loss there really. Also if they only go oh ok, then they aren't really looking at buying a reptile.

 

[pugsly]

lol

I am well aware you have KNOWN it was going to come in, but you keep going on and on and on about why it shouldnt, whats the point? Again, it seems to be you can't accept it IS.

 

[pugsly]

I don't see how this effects you anyway. If you were so 'heavily' involved with this stuff in Melbourne, why is it shambled down there?

It has been proven it can work in QLD, sure there is some issues, but there is issues with John Doe selling to Bob from next door too.

As a now 'Queenslander' why are you so upset with it happening? Do we as herpers need to keep to the back alleys and Maccas Car parks forever do we?

 

[Tiliqua]

Other than providing a gap between breeders and pet owners, a massively increased opportunity for diseases and mites to be spread and the opportunity to buy animals which are subjected to extra stress at an increased price, pet shops have little to offer the average reptile keeper. I suppose the shop owners will have an easier time poaching and offloading lower quality animals to a typically less experienced market, and there is money to be made. Progress can't be stopped, it's probably going to happen. Hooray for economics!

I worked for years on a committee, having a direct impact on the rules in Victoria. I've done more than most on this site in terms of being involved in the issue. Opposing it every step of the way is going to serve you best.............If the powers that be wanted to consult me when the regulations were being drawn up I'd be happy to be involved,

I don't mean to be rude, but if you tried your best to sort out Victorian regulations and it didn't work, then why would a board of NSW retailers consult you in regards to regulations?
The general feeling is NSW keepers would like to see stricter rules when reptiles come into shops than our Victorian counterparts.
Cheers
Tiliqua

 

[ozianimals]

Look the fact is, we can purchase reptiles from pet shops already- if you have a licence, if you do a course at the pet shop, you can purchase a reptile at the pet shop from the breeder that runs this course on the day. Yes, this is in Sydney. I don't think any more needs to be done.

Courses at this stage run every 2 weeks, it gives people time to settle down and think about things also before jumping into buying an animal they might not want in a week or two

You are not buying your reptile from a pet shop you are just picking it up at that location and it still is against the law in NSW to have that animals inside the premises of any business. You are buying off the breeder this is not buying from the pet shop.

I buy my reps at the pet shop when the breeder I use goes to the shop.
All of the deal is done out side the store as he does not want people knowing where his reps are kept, and the store owner knows his responsabilities and will not let it happen on his premises. Thats where I meet most people in to reps as I'm not part of any herp societies or anything.

As for whos arguing with who, the original post was asking for cons which means arguing against the idea. If all you want is suggestions of how we can get this happening,(which I don't) you shouldn't be asking for the cons but just solutions to the cons.

I think that if you are wanting a reptile they are very readily available without needing pet shops/commercial breeders/wholesalers to get all but the uncommon types of reps and the reptile shops in NSW know who to see to put you on the right path. I would rather pay a keeper $1000.00 for an animal than pay a reptile shop $1400.00 so they can make money for an animals that is only worth $1000.00 as shops have over heads they need to consider plus feeding, registering with the nswnp that the animals has been purchased by them and then sold by them.

The other issue I see is that according to nswnp you are supposed to trade your reps not sell or buy them.
A pet shop will never agree to this type of trade.

 

[cris]

I think it should be clear by now that Sdaji isnt going to contribute anything useful to this thread. Its a shame really as he has an insiders view on the worst system in Australia.

 

[pugsly]

"you shouldn't be asking for the cons but just solutions to the cons."

I asked for the cons, so then we could work out solutions to the cons.

"The other issue I see is that according to nswnp you are supposed to trade your reps not sell or buy them."

Correct. Thats what I am arguing we need to change.

"I think that if you are wanting a reptile they are very readily available without needing pet shops/commercial breeders/wholesalers to get all but the uncommon types of reps and the reptile shops in NSW know who to see to put you on the right path. I would rather pay a keeper $1000.00 for an animal than pay a reptile shop $1400.00 so they can make money for an animals that is only worth $1000.00 as shops have over heads they need to consider plus feeding, registering with the nswnp that the animals has been purchased by them and then sold by them."

This is interesting. Roy Pails sells his at the same price breeders do? Tim from URS also? Amazing. Do they breed there own, sure, but they also purchase from a HEAP of people for bugger all. I know plenty of people who offload there stock to them for very cheap deals, for a number of reasons. They dont need to sell a Carpet for $1000 when they will probably readily be available to purchase from large breeders looking to move stock on for $100 or cheaper.

Im not conerned with the prices in Pet Shops. As for people who want them being able to find them, sure. No argument there, its a fact. But so what? Does that mean because we all know There is a footy semi on this weekend we don't need to see any advertising?

I loved snakes for YEARS before I ever found out I could actually legally own one. It was only through a friend I became aware then did my own research and found these forums. Awareness is also the key, sure if you like them you might find them online, herp societies, but this isn't just about the people who want to KEEP them.

For me its also about changing the whole identity and awareness of our Reptilian friends, if they come into shops, those 99% of the community who have no idea about Reptiles, consider a good snake a dead snake, can learn more about them, perhaps even like them, and change there perceptions of them. They tell a friend who tells a friend etc etc. For me this = less herps getting killed because they don't know what type of snake it is, less injured wildlife left for dead as people will learn who to call, or be able to identify what it is etc.

I'm sick of the hobby being hiden under a rock, people look at you like your a freak when you tell them you keep snakes etc, well thats no skin off my nose, but frankly Im over it, we have nothing to be ashamed of, and the more people who become interested the better IMO.

There is you 'alterior motive' mate.

 

[grimbeny]

If ur right pugs and they do permit the sale of reptiles in nsw in the near future I really do hope it is done properly but i cant see this as being likely. It isnt really the role of the npws to ensure animals are treated with dignity nor is it their role to slow the spread of diseases such as OPMV. The npws's role is to preserve the natural wildlife out there, ie ensuring animals are not illegaly collected etc. They will not have the funds or resources to monitor the pet industry closly. Even if they do charge 20K (which i cant imagine any petshop affording, like seriously who could make anymoney of reptiles if u had those kind of overheads) Resources and legislation will not ensure each animal is cared for appropriatly. Quarantine is impossible with the sale of reptiles in petshops.

 

[aussiekev.n.s.w]

quote" For me its also about changing the whole identity and awareness of our Reptilian friends, if they come into shops, those 99% of the community who have no idea about Reptiles, consider a good snake a dead snake, can learn more about them, perhaps even like them, and change there perceptions of them. They tell a friend who tells a friend etc etc. For me this = less herps getting killed because they don't know what type of snake it is, less injured wildlife left for dead as people will learn who to call, or be able to identify what it is etc.

thats what i said about 3 pages back lol

 

[pugsly]

Lol Sorry mate..

 

[natrix]

Lots of good points being made , pro & anti .
I think it'd only be viable if it was a pretty big operation. Could you sell enough reptiles to make it
a viable business while still maintaining strict quarantine conditions?
I think it'd be great if a group like the new 'pilbara/trueblue team could open a shop front to deal
from . And although it's pretty easy to find your way into finding/buying ya first snake , I'm sure
there are a lot more people that'd get into it if it was presented in a shop-like way--creating more
awareness & business for all breeders.
Some people just wouldn't want to meet a guy at a petrol station to do a clandestine transaction. .

 

[cris]

I have been to a fair number of private keepers houses to buy reptiles only one wanted me to wash my hands before touching their reptiles, some real good quarantine there. None have ever asked me to wear freshly washed clothes and avoid contact with my reptiles before coming.

perhaps they should put some qurantine and hygene practices in the code of practice and the reptile keeping courses that would have to be completed before the licences are handed out(similar to how there is a compulsory course in qld). A reptile shop isnt going to want a reputation for selling snakes with IBD or OPMV.

 

[Colin]

Yeah thats fine, but wouldn't you rather them on display?

Ive been in at Troys shop several times, and so many people come through the doors and expect to see something there. (On display) the amount of times he has to explain 'No, there illegal to be ....... blah blah blah, he might as well have a tape recording. Then the potential customer goes, oh, ok, and walks out the door.

Yeah I've heard that countless times about pet shops too pugs, but these customers probably that know jack about keeping snakes in the first place and probably only want them as a whim.

If they knew anything about reptiles, how to keep them, house them etc they would probably have a licence and know that you can't buy reptiles from shops in NSW in the first place.

If they interested in reptiles they would have maybe found out about the requirements to keep them (licence etc) and how to house them etc before they entered the shop and never ask that question.

Are these impulse buyers we want our animals to go home with?

I know everyone has to start somewhere but to be able to go into a shop maybe put a deposit on a python, run down to the NPWS with a licence application to be processed and soon after go home with the animal? Maybe a little research should be done prior to owning a reptile.

I remember many years ago the AHS organised for anyone interested, to do this TAFE course (that zoo keepers did etc) Herpetological Techniques and Advanced Herpetology. I don't think this course exists anymore, but even if you knew about herps it was fun. Harald Ehman was the teacher and it ran over several Saturdays at UTS and there were a few field trips and doing pit trapping, surveys and assignments etc. Anyone here ever done that course or similar? This course wasn't exactly on how to keep reptiles, and more for zoo keepers and field research techniques, but I can't see why one couldn't be organised on keeping and maintaining reptiles for beginners.

Maybe having a course run by TAFE & NSW NPWS that new owners had to successfully complete before they got their animals would be a good thing. If the hobby is growing so big as everyone says, maybe something like thats needed as a safeguard to seperate the impulse buyers from the serious newcomers to the hobby.

 

[pugsly]

Hell have a reptile room for all I care, just like the Reptile Park set up wash hands, step into the bucket etc etc

That wont happen of course, but would be nice..

 

[pugsly]

Great points mate.

Totally agree with the TAFE thing. I still don't agree with the impulse buyer argument, but each to there own.

Guess we will wait and see, there is a long long way to go, all we know is that is is going to happen, all the details of how and when are a way off yet, which is a good thing for now.

 

[mysnakesau]

"...I'm sick of the hobby being hiden under a rock, people look at you like your a freak when you tell them you keep snakes etc, well thats no skin off my nose, but frankly Im over it, we have nothing to be ashamed of, and the more people who become interested the better IMO.

There is you 'alterior motive' mate.

I know what you mean Pugs People come into my shop, see your poster on the wall then ask if we have snakes in the shop, and they stop dead at the door until we tell them NO. But i think having them in the shops could change ppl's views on them as being something dangerous and should be killed. Look at the spiders and scorpians, they are everywhere and ppl who say err yuk (I'm one of them) will still go in to look at them. I think ppl could learn to get use the reptiles the same.

 

[grimbeny]

NPWS already monitor the pet industry as alot of the birds that are sold in shops are under licence with the exact same requirements as a reptile licence.

So NPWS ensures that enclosure size is big enough, that staff are competent enough to explain all aspects of husbandry, that quarantine measures are taken into consideration?

 

[pugsly]

At the moment of course not.

But, thats the point when this happens, lets see if they CAN try and work towards solutions to achieve this.

 

[mysnakesau]

That's another point to. They already don't do enough check up on the licensed birds in commerical shops and in my years of having a private bird license have NEVER had anyone come in and check up on me at all. So why would they single out the reptiles as anything more special.