Snake sex

[herptrader]

We are doing research trials using CT scans for hatchling Pythons. I should have some results to post early next year.

Imagine sliding 50 hatchies at a time under the scanner and sexing them all with 100% accuracy. At $600 or so bucks a scan you would have to do several at once to make it worthwile unless they are GTP's.

Ulstrasound works pretty good to.

So what do you look for in the CT scans? (and ultra sounds also for that matter?)

I know that for many goanas the only good way to sex them is to x-ray them and look for the boney structures associated with the male apparatus but this method does not work until they are old enough to show.

A fool proof and non invasive method of sexing hatchlings would be great... particularly if it is reasonabley priced.

 

[krusty]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Snake sex

The only 100% way to tell is the crystal pendulum method,

i had a 2 of my pythons sexed by a big reptile person in melbourne that does that CRYSTAL PENDULUM METHOD and states that he is 100% right all the time and probed them and said they are both females so then i took them to brian barnet at the herp shop probed them again and one was female and the other probed to 13 scales so it was a male so any one that use's that way to sex there pythons are crazy as it is only 50% of being right.probing is the only way to go IMO.i have had lots of stuff ups useing other methods by other breeders but the one that have been probed have all turned out 100% right
as they breed every year......so thats what i think any way.

 

[hazzard]

We are doing research trials using CT scans for hatchling Pythons. I should have some results to post early next year.

Imagine sliding 50 hatchies at a time under the scanner and sexing them all with 100% accuracy. At $600 or so bucks a scan you would have to do several at once to make it worthwile unless they are GTP's.

Ulstrasound works pretty good to.

So what do you look for in the CT scans? (and ultra sounds also for that matter?)

I know that for many goanas the only good way to sex them is to x-ray them and look for the boney structures associated with the male apparatus but this method does not work until they are old enough to show.

A fool proof and non invasive method of sexing hatchlings would be great... particularly if it is reasonabley priced.

CT scans give you a good look at the vent cavities (which indicate hemipenes) and other structures , overlay it with their software and you can get exact measurements to 1/10th of a mm so even subtle differences are detectable. It's still in very early stages and we won't know anything definite for a while. You need ethics approval to do any of this research and it is done stage by stage. There is the issue of radiation exposure

Hopefully I will be able to post images later in the year.

Ultrasound as opposed to CT doesn't rely on the animal being dead still. We've had some success actually visually detecting male structures. Again results are not available yet.

 

[Sdaji]

Craig and Zen: they're Parasuta flagellum, one of the best examples of dimorphic tails I can't recall noticing the Furinas being particularly easy, but then again I've never paid a lot of attention to them (I'll try to remember to go through some photos of them). I've found Tiger Snakes to be pretty easy to sex by tail shape, but that's probably more because I like them a lot and tend to stare at them with a lot of interest I find Children's Pythons to be among the easiest of the pythons to sex by tail shape, the adults are often as easily sexed visually as with a probe, but by the time they're adults you've usually bothered to probe them I know a guy who apparently can sex hatchling Children's Pythons by feeling their tails! I was sceptical at first, but he sexed some soon after they hatched, I grew them up, probed them and found that he got them all right! :shock: I've had a go at his method and can't say I'm quite as skilled!

 

[zen]

Thanks for that Sdaji
It's a great method & valuable skill to have. A bit of a slowly acquired ability I assume, but well worth developing.


Cheers

 

[nvenm8]

Miffy have a gander at http://www.vpi.com/9VPITipsAndTechs/DeterminingTheSexOfSnakes/DeterminingTheSexOfSnakes.htm

A lot of info for you here. As well as all the helpful stuff already posted you will be full bottled in no time.

 

[Hickson]

The only 100% way to tell is the crystal pendulum method, I can't believe no-one's told him to try that

That's because it's a well-kept secret, known to all the long-time experienced herpers!



Hix

 

[herptrader]

CT scans give you a good look at the vent cavities (which indicate hemipenes) and other structures , overlay it with their software and you can get exact measurements to 1/10th of a mm so even subtle differences are detectable. It's still in very early stages and we won't know anything definite for a while. You need ethics approval to do any of this research and it is done stage by stage. There is the issue of radiation exposure

Hopefully I will be able to post images later in the year.

Ultrasound as opposed to CT doesn't rely on the animal being dead still. We've had some success actually visually detecting male structures. Again results are not available yet.

That sounds fascinating. Please do keep us in the loop as to your progress. Photos would be a bonus.

This would be a gazillion times more reliable than waving a crystal around and crossing your fingers.

 

[wokka]

i recently heard of a dispute involving a gtp sold as a female but probed as a male. Eventaully a vet did aarthroscopic , (i think) examination under anethetic and it was shown to be female. i believe the cost was a couple of hundred dollars but i guess it worth it for gtps.

 

[herptrader]

i recently heard of a dispute involving a gtp sold as a female but probed as a male. Eventaully a vet did aarthroscopic , (i think) examination under anethetic and it was shown to be female. i believe the cost was a couple of hundred dollars but i guess it worth it for gtps.

This is also a pretty invasive procedure.

Experienced probers (and I would include Brian Barnett as one of the best) have a very high accuracy rate but they would also be the first to say when the results are not clear. I know from watching Brian that he just states how many scales it probed to and not whether it is a boy or a girl but from this information the result is usually very clear and information about how many scales males and females of commonly kept species is freely available. (I am sure that Krusty will back me up on this.)

One reason for a python to probe female when male is too larger probe being used but again this comes down to experience.

The problem with GTP's is that they are so prone to tail damage when they are younger that should not be probed until they have a fair amount of size on them which is often not until they are yearlings.