Something to think about on pricing

[Waterrat]

Renenet, if you only want to breed snakes for the experience, why not to approach your local Zoos, there are several in the Cairns region, and breed for them. I know for a fact that CTZ needs to breed GTPs to sustain their collection and display, maybe they need other species too. You breed them, keep a few for yourself if you want to and then give them the rest. No dramas with marketing, dealing with tyrekickers. Just make sure you make a sound arrangement with them, nothing like "maybe" or "we shell see after you bred them", easy to understand MOU.

 

[graffix]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, what is a fair way to price for new breeders without causing a crash in the market?

The simple answer is the fair current price that reflects the quality of the offspring and also takes into account the breeders knowledge and service provided.

To build a good reputation you have to be able to handle any issues that may arise right from conditioning your breeding animals right through to after sales support. It only takes one "customer" to have an issue and the breeder either not be willing or able to offer decent advice and any reputation has gone down the toilet.

Regardless of price, if the breeding animals are not of decent quality then they should not be bred. Look at the top breeders and you will see that a big part of their continued success is the quality of their lines, solid knowledge base and the fact they stand behind their animals. 2 out of 3 just isn't close enough.

Personally, if the market is flooded with a species of pretty good quality I won't put my animals at risk or through the stress of breeding in the vein hope I will find owners for the offspring unless I am 100% sure the offspring produced by my animals is of equal or better quality than is often available.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

This price issue comes up every so often & mostly this time of year when things are slow & people have spent thier money.
It is a simple matter of (yes) supply & demand. This year everyone might want Stimmies, next year BHPs are the fad. The economy also has an effect.
If you are a pet owner & just have a few that does not matter. If you are a hobbiest breeder then sure you want to make some sort of return on your investment. If you have several breeding pairs apropriatley housed, this will cost you abit to set up, maintain & feed & yes time is money also.
Now if you are a business, then you want to & need to make a profit otherwise you go broke.
Now for some of the name calling in this thread & who has made the most money & who has put into the hobby or not is totally irrelevant.
Personally I think it very hipocritical of some to throw stones.
I have looked up to some of those people that have been in the riight spot or adventurous enough to take the next step & produce a thriving business or just to bring something new to our hobby. Lets face it that is what most people want & strive to do is something better or new, without it we are just flat.
What about the magasines & books, is that just for money as well or do you consider that a contribution to the hobby.

I think that you should all get of your high horse or pedistal & rethink the whole situation.
If someone wants to breed snakes & sell them fo $50 What the heck, let them go. You will find that they won't do this for long. There are many steps to the future of our hobby & people will soon learn this or leave. Move on or get left behind.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

Sammie and I are in a pickle about this very issue, we have for the firs time successfully bred a healthy clutch of MD which are due to hatch in just under a month now. we are of the opinion or snakes are absolutely beautiful, nothing that stands out in regards to patterns, nice markings and colours but would not say there are many pure MD's that look much different. bar maybe 2 or three i have seen on here occasionally they all look very similar. back to my point though im of the opinion that every one should own a MD the most placid snake anyone could ever ask for have never met an angry one yet. having said that price them to low although it doesn't bother me what we sell them for you dont want to price them so low it puts other breeders out, at the same time i dont want to price them so high that none of them will sell. i have seen them for sale for $50 or less if you buy more than one. i think personally at this price the people who are looking for a quick cheap deal will snap them up with little thought put into care or looking for the snake thats right for them. so back to my point what would a reasonable price i myself can say i would happily pay 150-200 for an established MD but what is your opinion.

I paid $50 for my first snake, a MD, and she is my favourite snake and gets the exact same care as our other snakes which have cost 200-300...

 

[mysnakesau]

How many people selling pythons for quick money offer on-going help for their buyers. People can chose to buy a cheap one and be faced with a no-contact relationship with their seller, or they could chose to pay more for it from a reputable person and know they can call them for help any time in the future. Some cheapies may offer this service, but out of those who are just breeding to sell to make money, how many of them really care to look after the animals properly. Obviously they know enough to get them to breed, and hatch eggs but these type of people would tell newbies anything to make themselves look good - feed it live, doesn't need this, has to have that, and the newbies have nothing but trouble with their new snake.

 

[KaotikJezta]

That's the point though Kathy, not everyone that sells things cheap is like that. Some are yes, but not all. I have seen people on this very forum that produce spectacular snakes and are highly regarded by the community sell things cheap on occasion. As someone else said, cheap doesn't always mean nasty.

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

How many people selling pythons for quick money offer on-going help for their buyers. People can chose to buy a cheap one and be faced with a no-contact relationship with their seller, or they could chose to pay more for it from a reputable person and know they can call them for help any time in the future. Some cheapies may offer this service, but out of those who are just breeding to sell to make money, how many of them really care to look after the animals properly. Obviously they know enough to get them to breed, and hatch eggs but these type of people would tell newbies anything to make themselves look good - feed it live, doesn't need this, has to have that, and the newbies have nothing but trouble with their new snake.

I was very lucky with that, I only got mine so cheap due to the fact that the breeder wanted to make room for more snakes. He offered after care advice and fortunately, i didnt need any..

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

The other thing that I would like to piont out is that not everyone wants a snake/s for breeding.
My eldest duaughter got me excited about snakes when she first got hers. My wife & her got me one for my birthday & it just went from there.
I used to breed a lot of parrots which yes we would make money on & expand our breeding stock & use the extra money also to take the wife & kids on a yearly holiday which we all thoroughly enjoyed. When we moved back to Emerald with some birds in hand, the demand was not there so we sold everything out at a loss. That's business.

Now the first pair that I got to breed where from a friend of a friend that lived in Townsville & were a pair of adult Carpet Pythons(just normals) & we negotiated price as the frieght cost was so high like $170 & I think we paid about $600 for the Pythons. They bred for me that same year & I was so excited & the female even incubated the eggs as I had no incubator.

How exciting was this!!!!! I think that she hatched about 30 & we sold at about $100 to $120 each. After feeding probably about $10 to $20 worth of pinkies down thier neck & many many hours feeding & handling them.
But still with all this & my great success, it inspired me to go further & spend that money on the next pair & so on.
So now I have a small breeders colection worth a bit. So do I want a return for my dollars & effort put in, I am damn sure I do,otherwise I may as well just have a few as pets. This how it all starts with the $50 snake or dragon.

Cheers
Ian

I laid out the bait, but no one has come to have a feed yet.

Yes I do have Jags & I am interested in my BHP breeding program.
So does that make anyone less or more desirable than another. It depends on what you want & what you can afford to do.
Then there are the social aspects of the breeding.

When the first white or what they called albino Cockatiel/Quorrion came out, most of them had bald heads/half a crest & whatever else. People still flocked to buy them as they where something different. When the right breeders got hold of them & bred them properly, they came back with full heads of feathers.
The same goes for any of the other mutation types of birds/snakes/lizards etc.

So if my name is Simon be damned if I do & be damned if I don't.
Get your facts right & make a contribution to the hobby instead of putting **** talk on stupid forum.

Cheers
ian

 

[kawasakirider]

It sound very cute, doesn't it. I hear that from other sides of the industry too "we don't do it for the money, it's to support ....."
We ain't all stupid.

Pretty much the same with all hobbies! Everyone says they are in it for the love and to some degree they would be, everyone has an agenda though. I don't know why people try to hide it, that's worse than admitting the $$ they get from doing something they enjoy is a pretty good combination. They must want people to think they're mother Theresa or something. The only exception is when people sell their stuff to break even or less, or when someone does something for mates rates.

 

[Waterrat]

Pretty much the same with all hobbies! Everyone says they are in it for the love and to some degree they would be, everyone has an agenda though

Agenda or cover up ..... there is another side to it; in some states (if not most) making profit from selling protected wildlife is a no no, even if captive bred reptiles. So, I guess those who are making few bucks prefer not to talk about it. But the biggest devil is envy from withing the hobby and that's another reason why no one admits to financial success.

 

[waruikazi]

Agenda or cover up ..... there is another side to it; in some states (if not most) making profit from selling protected wildlife is a no no, even if captive bred reptiles. So, I guess those who are making few bucks prefer not to talk about it. But the biggest devil is envy from withing the hobby and that's another reason why no one admits to financial success.

The green eyed monster is everywhere in this hobby.

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

You all need to wake up to yourselves & shake your so importance.
A snake or reptile is worth as much today as it was yesterday or last year & that is the price that people are prepaired to pay for that economy or that season. Do not dought it the price has fallen very signifinately for as example GTP or RSP & that will keep falling until it meets the market.
I don't know how anyone that could afford to buy GTPs at extroadinary prices & then expect to sell them 2 - 3 years later at the same. This is not how it works , you all know the facts & figures so why bring it up in an arguement. This is so much BULL.
Cheers
Ian

 

[Waterrat]

Sorry Ian but you're not making much sense. You're saying: "A snake or reptile is worth as much today as it was yesterday or last year" and then you go on: "I don't know how anyone that could afford to buy GTPs at extroadinary prices & then expect to sell them 2 - 3 years later at the same". A bit of contradiction there?

"This is not how it works , you all know the facts & figures so why bring it up in an arguement. This is so much BULL." Thanks for the advice but this is not an argument, it's a discussion and had you left out the "This is so much BULL", we could call it a civilised discussion. How come you know it all and we don't?

 

[snakehandler]

A snake or reptile is worth as much today as it was yesterday or last year & that is the price that people are prepaired to pay for that economy or that season.
Cheers
Ian

WR, read the whole paragraph....its the same thing I said at the start...an animal is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it....prices have dropped because people cant move high end animals as quickly as the cheaper animals.

 

[Waterrat]

For Christ sake, don't mention "supply & demand" again. It will give me heart attack. I can read and I understand the situation, why are people parroting the same thing over and over again?
Actually, .... an animal in not worth what a person is willing to pay for it. It's worth what it's worth to the breeder. Do I have to sell you an animal just because you say what it's worth? No! I will keep it and sell it to someone else. Just because some people are on a shoestring budged, doesn't mean the whole nation is. I don't think Ian is quite in the picture.

cheers

 

[MR_IAN_DAVO]

For Christ sake, don't mention "supply & demand" again. It will give me heart attack. I can read and I understand the situation, why are people parroting the same thing over and over again?
Actually, .... an animal in not worth what a person is willing to pay for it. It's worth what it's worth to the breeder. Do I have to sell you an animal just because you say what it's worth? No! I will keep it and sell it to someone else. Just because some people are on a shoestring budged, doesn't mean the whole nation is. I don't think Ian is quite in the picture.

cheers

Yes Michael you are right, YOU don't have to sell me an animal or anything at a price less than you want, But I don't have to buy either.
It is the simple facts of life (supply & demand) lol.
Anything is only worth what people are prepaired to pay. Lets say you breed 20 GTPs or whatever snake & if you want Say $5000 for them, yes there might be some people buy at this price, so you have sold say 5. Well & good, you can keep the others if you want & keep advertising or grow them up or whatever, But if the other 15 don't sell then what?

It is no different to the car salesman that has had a car sitting on the lot for 12 months & can't sell it, He will sell it to whoever for a cheaper price to move it & get rid of it as it is costing him time & money.

Now as for the mud slinging on other people that have put a lot of thier life into this hobby we should be ashamed.

Cheers
Ian

 

[hrafna]

i plan to breed some mds when i feel ready to try breeding, when i do i will sell the animals for what i feel is a reasonable price, if someone is selling for $50 an animal but i feel like selling for $150 i won't lower my price to match them! likewise, if i am selling for $200 and others are selling for $300 then i am not going to raise my price to suit. infact i will probably offer a few to the ahs for their annual general meeting. bottom line is this i am wanting to do this for a learning experience and will only do things that i am able to handle (breeding 1 pair instead of 5 pairs) and any money that i make will go into providing for the animals i keep, expanding my interests within the hobby. if someone wants to say i am doing something wrong or judge me for my actions, well their opinion doesn't matter i am doing this for my enjoyment not theirs and certainly not to get rich quick!

 

[Waterrat]

Yes Michael you are right, YOU don't have to sell me an animal or anything at a price less than you want, But I don't have to buy either.
It is the simple facts of life (supply & demand) lol.
Anything is only worth what people are prepaired to pay. Lets say you breed 20 GTPs or whatever snake & if you want Say $5000 for them, yes there might be some people buy at this price, so you have sold say 5. Well & good, you can keep the others if you want & keep advertising or grow them up or whatever, But if the other 15 don't sell then what?

It is no different to the car salesman that has had a car sitting on the lot for 12 months & can't sell it, He will sell it to whoever for a cheaper price to move it & get rid of it as it is costing him time & money.

Now as for the mud slinging on other people that have put a lot of thier life into this hobby we should be ashamed.

Cheers
Ian

Ian, you would be surprised how many people are willing to pay a good (not over the top) dollar for good quality snake and A1 service. Don't judge the world from your own platform.

PS. I don't understand your last sentence at all.