Dont be so harsh on newbies....

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by montysrainbow, Apr 16, 2013.

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  1. RedFox

    RedFox Very Well-Known Member

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    When I was little I used to "catch and release" skink all the time. Mum never let me keep them though. When I was really little and we lived in Vic, I used to share my banana with our resident blue tongue who lived near the clothes line. At primary school I caught a few brown tree snakes that the teachers took off me.
    :(

    It is good your little ones are interested in reptiles, I wish more kids were, but I think the look but don't touch is a good rule. :)
     
  2. jack

    jack Very Well-Known Member

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    flamed for catching skinks? a big no no? righto, bring it on: i love the skink slap, i catch the silly little things all the time, it reassures me that i am not too old and slow... one of my proudest fatherly moments was when my boy first caught one on the back path.
    I encourage you all to go and catch skinks...
     
  3. montysrainbow

    montysrainbow Very Well-Known Member

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    I must confess though I was kinda planning on letting them live in a tank in their bedroom lol that's prob where the flames came from :lol: eastern water skinks....we let them have a visit and then let em go 8)
     
  4. Sezzzzzzzzz

    Sezzzzzzzzz Very Well-Known Member

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    I must confess, i too am guilty of catching skinks with my daughter. we always put them back in the garden after looking at them though :)
     
  5. saintanger

    saintanger Very Well-Known Member

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    wen my daughter is older if she wants to catch some skinks i won't stop her, but i will teach her how to catch them with out making their tail fall of and i will then make her realese them. if she wants one as a pet i will get one on licence for her.

    how do they think all our field herps, scientists, herpetolagist ect gained all their kowledge about species ect by doing hands on work. who knows it might spark our kids interest to be healthy and spend more time out doors or might interest them in wanting to be a herpetolagist ect.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  6. jack

    jack Very Well-Known Member

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    you spelt herpetolagist wrong you nube
     
  7. andynic07

    andynic07 Very Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it was someone who studied herpis , herpiologist.
     
  8. saintanger

    saintanger Very Well-Known Member

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    thanks, my spelling aint the best and i do not have spell check on here tried to get it to work but it never does.
     
  9. apprenticegnome

    apprenticegnome Active Member

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    I started a thread about the necessity of using scientific names in the majority of posts and that started a bit of the newbie attack on myself. I also mentioned the word herpetologist from memory later in the thread and some so called experts came out with different definitions based purely on personal perception. I couldn't believe that a thread could all of a sudden bring a few elitists to the surface. In a community were combined knowledge helps the hobby grow and aids newbies in joining in some people obviously feel threatened to the point they have to draw a line in the sand between us and them.
     
  10. apprenticegnome

    apprenticegnome Active Member

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    I did get a majority of good opinions although some differed from mine they were put forward in a friendly manner.
     
  11. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    I have deliberately held off posting to see what others had to say. This is an area of personal interest to me and I have given it a good deal of thought, for whatever that is worth.

    The first point I would make is that I believe there is a widespread belief amongst the general public that frogs and reptiles require little and look after themselves. They are seen in the garden, the golf course, the weed infested vacant block, the sheep paddock, the local drain that was once a creek etc. That they can survive and thrive in such highly disturbed areas, a long way removed from habitat, is interpreted as being super tough and needing next to nothing to get by.

    I have a question for you all. At the point of sale, who should be responsible for ensuring that the buyer has the necessary knowledge to meet the needs of the animal(s)? The buyer or the seller?....

    Who definitely knows what needs to be known? Who is quite likely under the misapprehension that that very little needs to be known and there is no more to it than keeping other pets like a goldfish or a budgie? How many sellers do you know would direct a customer away to do some set homework before returning again to purchase the animal? A responsible breeder may do. Anyone prepared to do this is also likely to act as a mentor. It is a fortunate buyer that has this experience and one that is highly unlikely to end up on APS asking “newbie questions”.

    Yet somehow, we manage to turn it around when we do get such questions and level the blame fairly and squarely at the newbie for not having done their research on things that they had no idea required being researched. And to add insult to injury we tell them to use the search facility on APS or the internet. Sound advice? Try searching heating on APS. The last time I did it I came up with in excess of 200 threads, ranging from 4 or 5 posts to several hundred. A recent thread I recall had highly experienced keepers arguing the pro and cons of heat cord versus radiant heaters versus spot light heating. For some just starting, all that does is muddy the water. And I think we are all aware that some of the advice given by some individuals is quite simply poor and even inappropriate at times. The same issue to an even greater degree exist with the internet. Yet we expect someone with a background of ignorance to suddenly be discerning wading through the plethora of information that will confront them. I ask the question again... Sound advice?

    What do believe people that have bought an animal and know nothing about meeting its needs require most? Flaming? Being made to feel negative about having bought a reptile or amphibian? To be fobbed off onto the internet or APS search engine? Or to be directed to quality information about keeping?

    Blue

     
  12. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    It is inevitable that you will get a percentage of ‘time wasters’ on any forum. Moderators get on their case and if they do not lift their game they are sent packing. Such individuals only rarely come with an extensive knowledge of keeping and so they come under the umbrella of ‘newbies’. I personally believe that you need to separate out such individuals and recognise that they would ask ridiculous questions or ignore good advice given even if they had extensive keeping experience. They are here for reasons other than to learn!

    The giving of poor advice or confusing advice can be circumvented by directing individuals to already written advice that is of a high quality. For example, for someone starting out with a python, I tend to direct them to the ‘Doc Rock’ articles on the Southern Cross Reptiles website. I also tend to recommend that any beginning keeper buy a copy of John Weigel’s Care of Australian Reptiles in Captivity. For around $20 it highly affordable and provides an excellent overview of our hobby. To my mind, it provides the sort of introduction keepers need before they launch into the specifics of a given species. They can then move onto a more expensive text, usually one produced within the last 5years, from there. The “Keeping” range of booklets, authored by Darren Green and others, are also excellent species specific beginner texts and great value at under $20. I know of one breeder south of Busselton who includes a copy of the relevant booklet as part of the sale of any animal, as well as providing on-going support – an excellent way to go. For those getting into turtles, you can’t go past the Australian Freshwater Turtles Forum – Beginner’s Guide & Australian Freshwater Turtles Care Guide for excellence plus the forum itself.

    The more I learn the more I realise I do not know – attributed to Socrates. I have stated before that no-one knows it all and I for one am still very much learning. And I do try to not let ego get in the way of admitting my mistakes.

    What are post counts indicative off? The number of times you have posted... and that’s it! One has only to glance through available forum categories to realise that there is plenty of scope for non-keeping related conversations. I almost feel like ther should be a statement to that effect that has to be read before you sign up.

    There are other issues but these are my thoughts on those that I recall being raised.

    Blue
     
  13. eipper

    eipper Very Well-Known Member APS Veteran

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    Some snakes do refuse food and require assist or force feeding
     
  14. mcbuggsy

    mcbuggsy Not so new Member

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    Following on from Bluetongues well thought out, clear response to this issue, I think the fault can lie with both the seller and the purchaser. Some sellers offer nothing and refer purchasers of animals to the internet. I offer a 6 page explanation on how to care for and rear captive hatchling turtles and other animals I breed, (gleaned from many years of keeping,and researching and brain picking) with every sale. However I have found that in maybe 50% of times when someone has contacted me with a problem, that they have ignored that written advice and taken advice from the Pet Shop where they bought some food, their mate who kept a turtle 20 years ago, or from a friend who had a friend who'se uncles brothers sister had a baby animal in the past. Some people will take advice and some won't. It's the way of the world. What annoys me is than in some of these instances, when the animal dies, it is a great waste of a young life that I have taken much time and effort to produce (same as any other breeder) and I get really annoyed when people blame me for providing a sick animal. Then want a refund or a replacement. Where they have clearly not followed any advice given, I refuse and either say there are no more available, or charge full price. I refuse to flame people on here, but can understand some peoples frustration. It's the way of the world now. I lived through a time where there was no internet and info in books was all we had. At least the info in books was mostly correct.
    These days, the fact that anyone can post information on the internet (whether right or wrong) makes it harder for a newbie to get a straight answer.
    Patience is the key I think...and maybe some commonsense.
    Then again my Dad used to say that "commonsense" was a strange word for it..as it really isn't very common....
    Oops, think I strayed off topic there a bit..better put the flame suit on... :)
     
  15. montysrainbow

    montysrainbow Very Well-Known Member

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    well the number of posts made doesnt mean a thing lol heck knows im slowly clocking them up but most are questions ive asked or a heap of me polly waffling in the chit chat section about everything but reptiles :lol: im here for the advice....i read alot on here AND im here for the social side of it lol a few members on here give me a good giggle every now n then....its all good.
     
  16. Bluetongue1

    Bluetongue1 Guest

    mcbuggsy,
    One would hope that the individuals you describe as ignoring your advice for that of others less qualified, constitute a very small percentage. The reality of life is that there are some people who, for a number of different reasons, are incompetent or incapable of looking after certain living things. If only we could identify them first up. Fortunately the capacity to keep is not prohibited because of an unrepresentative minority who cannot or will not do the right thing.

    There is a little more rationale behind my choice of referrals for people than I articulated in my previous post. Each is Australian, each has successfully reared and bred thousands of the relevant animals and each has a well recognised reputation for excellence in their field. I am usually at pains to point that out. For example the Lattas, responsible for the Turtle Care Guide, have bred upwards of a thousand turtles a year for their various projects – an awesome achievement by any bench mark.

    What I don’t want to do is understate the value of the range of Australian produced keeping texts that have been released over recent years. For a beginner who has had a successful crack at keeping and wants to expand their involvement, this is absolutely the way to go. Such superlative texts can only be described as a true boon to our hobby and an absolute credit to the authors.

    Blue
     
  17. Tsubakai

    Tsubakai Very Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read the rest of the thread but I do have an opinion on this. My approach is to help out as much as I can IF the newbie asks for help in a respectful manner. Sometimes, like the currently running thread about an albino not eating, I will not bother even trying to offer advice when I think the newbie won't listen or gets fired up by something you tell them. I have far too many other things happening to even bother wasting time with the second type but I will give people all my assistance if they truly wish to learn.

    Many people don't like to hear the truth - greater than 90% of problems encountered by newbies (with previously well reptiles) are the direct result of the owner not providing an adequate home that meets all the requirements of their pet. In a nutshell, its the new owners fault. Now I don't mean they are deliberately providing an inadequate environment but through ignorance of their new pets needs, they are the cause of the problem.

    The only way this can be solved? Learning new information then taking that information and putting it into practice then, thirdly, assessing whether the change in practice has had the desired effect. If not, back to step one and start again.

    I am more than willing to help but if I get a metaphorical 'slap in the face' then I'll be out of that thread and will not offer assistance to that person again.
     
  18. Normanbhp

    Normanbhp New Member

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    Hi, i think you all have good points , but when new keepers get snakes of me, i ask alot of questions so i know where there at, then i know what questions thay will ask,when i started i had to read lots of books and look for people that where willing to give me lots of knowledge, i some times asked 2 people the same questions to see if i got the same ancer, even now i have been in it for 20 years i know a lot about reptiles, now i still have to ask some questions to people who have been in it for 30 or 40 years and thay are always willing to ancer my questions know mater what my question is and some times thay have to go and ask some one becouse thay dont know the anser ether and thay will always get back to me, as long as we are asking questions all are reptiles will live longer and happer lives isent that what we want??????.
     
  19. Flangii

    Flangii Not so new Member

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    Me and my bf are newbies and have a 4 month old jungle python. According to a lot of sources, our hatchie was suppose to be feisty and snap a lot but we have been blessed with a beautiful hatchie. Never bites, has never missed a feeding and has already had a full healthy shed and about to shed again. He is so calm and we get him out all the time. So lucky =]
     
  20. montysrainbow

    montysrainbow Very Well-Known Member

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    wanna swap? lol I have a feisty coastal he is v pretty :lol: im so joking....wouldn't swap him. Yay 4 u though! enjoy ur new jungle.
     
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