some help with my diamond please

[andynic07]

This is my enclosure for my diamond cross coastal and it has a spot light 33 degrees at one end on timer only and I was going to have a night heat lamp set to 20 degrees for night at the other end but found that he didn't use it and just cruised around at night so I have no heat there now. I have just been cutting the light time back by 1 hr per week over the last few weeks and he has seemed to go into brumation now. He has quite a large area to choose from and the cool end is ambient temperature. I also usually have hides at each end but they are blue plastic boxes that I removed for the photo and I am also trying to find fake plants to jazz it up as I have only just finished the enclosure a couple of months ago.

 

[Bart70]

I wasn't 100% sure but I didn't think DPS was a problem with intergrades. I haven't been keeping intergrades as long as I have diamonds and never really looked into it. But your question got me thinking so I did a little research. Theres a lot of differing opinions and not all that much info but it seems that intergrades certainly are susceptible to DPS.

Andynic you hit the nail on the head when you said, "spots in the sun would get hotter than 30 degrees and if the snake does not like this they will move to a cooler area just like in an enclosure". They won't drop dead at 30 degrees but you need to ensure that they can have access to areas no hotter than 25 degrees for as long as they want. Also, Diamonds should only be given around 4 - 6 hrs of basking time through the day at temps 28-29 and no heat at night. I'm guessing Bart70 that this would be applicable to intergrades as well. Someone more experienced with intergrades might be able to confirm this?

Thanks,

I had always been told that Intergrades were a very hardy animal compared to Diamonds and it had been indicated (but not discussed in depth) that they did not suffer the issues associated with Diamonds. I am not worried about giving my guy some cooler temps - after all he is technically a 'native' of this area and providing he gets adequate warmth for a few hours during the day a drop to ambient temps at night should not be a problem - I think we are expecting nightly minimums of around 7-8c here at the moment so having no heating at night and being inside the house it would be unlikely to hurt him once he is a sub-adult. Even as a youngster he is happy to get away from the heat during the night at the moment (his hide temp is around 32 -33c)

In my mind there is always the question of 'how much of an intergrade' is my snake? Whilst I am confident from the parentage of mine that he is a legit intergrade, what about others that look a lot like Diamonds with a 'hint' of intergrade? Would you be tempted to drop their temps as you would a Diamond?

I guess it is not really relevant to me so won't waste much time pondering the thought. If I use the ambient seasonal conditions outside as a guide to night temps (ie - no night heat) , and provide 30c of basking warmth for a few hours of a day I would be less likely to expose him to any DPS issues he *may* suffer and will hopefully be giving him enough warmth for survival.

I must do some more reading on DPS when I get a chance.

 

[Skeptic]

This is my enclosure for my diamond cross coastal and it has a spot light 33 degrees at one end on timer only and I was going to have a night heat lamp set to 20 degrees for night at the other end but found that he didn't use it and just cruised around at night so I have no heat there now. I have just been cutting the light time back by 1 hr per week over the last few weeks and he has seemed to go into brumation now. He has quite a large area to choose from and the cool end is ambient temperature. I also usually have hides at each end but they are blue plastic boxes that I removed for the photo and I am also trying to find fake plants to jazz it up as I have only just finished the enclosure a couple of months ago.

Nice looking setup

 

[Bart70]

As you say, they move on. Read Ric shines study on the natural history of diamond pythons, its very interesting.

Brodie,

Is Ric Shine's study available as a published book or is it accessible via the internet? Would love to do some reading if I can get hold of it.

 

[Skeptic]

Thanks,

I had always been told that Intergrades were a very hardy animal compared to Diamonds and it had been indicated (but not discussed in depth) that they did not suffer the issues associated with Diamonds. I am not worried about giving my guy some cooler temps - after all he is technically a 'native' of this area and providing he gets adequate warmth for a few hours during the day a drop to ambient temps at night should not be a problem - I think we are expecting nightly minimums of around 7-8c here at the moment so having no heating at night and being inside the house it would be unlikely to hurt him once he is a sub-adult. Even as a youngster he is happy to get away from the heat during the night at the moment (his hide temp is around 32 -33c)

In my mind there is always the question of 'how much of an intergrade' is my snake? Whilst I am confident from the parentage of mine that he is a legit intergrade, what about others that look a lot like Diamonds with a 'hint' of intergrade? Would you be tempted to drop their temps as you would a Diamond?

I guess it is not really relevant to me so won't waste much time pondering the thought. If I use the ambient seasonal conditions outside as a guide to night temps (ie - no night heat) , and provide 30c of basking warmth for a few hours of a day I would be less likely to expose him to any DPS issues he *may* suffer and will hopefully be giving him enough warmth for survival.

I must do some more reading on DPS when I get a chance.

I was under the impression that intergrades were a hardier species as well until you raised the question. However, if you do the research (there's a very interesting old thread on here - http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/experiences-dps-65233/) it seems they aren't immune.

As you say, go with what's outside. At the moment here in Port it's 16 outside but 21 in my house (without heating) so absolutely no need for night time heating.

I don't think the 'more diamond' it looks would make a difference as there's always a lot of variation between intergrades and I wouldn't be determining temperature according to their paintjob

 

[Bart70]

Thank you,

Some very interesting reading there. I note that whilst there is some evidence to suggest that Intergrades are affected - the main evidence around it was blurred slightly by the use of synthetic pyrethrins which Jamie pointed out *may* be accountable for the symptoms seen and not be DPS. Not saying it does not affect Intergrades, only that in the stated case it was possible it may not have been DPS. The main points I got out of it were:

* There is some evidence to suggest that it may be in the best interests to treat Intergrades as though they are Diamonds
* Removing night heat for Diamonds is strongly recommended (even for hatchies/juvies)
* Max temps when heat is applied should not exceed 30c and only be for a few hours a day (mostly mornings seem best)
* A Diamond will not necessarily act in its own best interest and seek a cooler hiding location if a warmer one is available (hence keeping max temps lower)
* Always have an area of the enclosure at ambient temps
* Given that I live in Intergrade heartland - ambient temps most of the time with a couple of hours warmth (not exceeding 30c) should be all my Intergrade should need.

Thanks Skeptic - some great info here.

As a sidenote I recall reading an article (I think it was Doc Rock but cannot recall - it was a larger scale breeder) who recommended a similar regime for getting the best out of Murray Darlings. It was along the lines of around 30c for a few hours a day and minimal to no heating otherwise. As I recall there was no mention of DPS, but I think they were better breeders and generally overall healthier when kept like this. A similar statement was also made about Bredli.

Maybe we are becoming too accustomed to all the tropical northern species and morphs etc and forgetting about the husbandry of the inland and cooler climate species?

Certainly has given me some food for thought....has been a productive exercise.

 

[Skeptic]

Thank you,

Some very interesting reading there. I note that whilst there is some evidence to suggest that Intergrades are affected - the main evidence around it was blurred slightly by the use of synthetic pyrethrins which Jamie pointed out *may* be accountable for the symptoms seen and not be DPS. Not saying it does not affect Intergrades, only that in the stated case it was possible it may not have been DPS. The main points I got out of it were:

* There is some evidence to suggest that it may be in the best interests to treat Intergrades as though they are Diamonds
* Removing night heat for Diamonds is strongly recommended (even for hatchies/juvies)
* Max temps when heat is applied should not exceed 30c and only be for a few hours a day (mostly mornings seem best)
* A Diamond will not necessarily act in its own best interest and seek a cooler hiding location if a warmer one is available (hence keeping max temps lower)
* Always have an area of the enclosure at ambient temps
* Given that I live in Intergrade heartland - ambient temps most of the time with a couple of hours warmth (not exceeding 30c) should be all my Intergrade should need.

Thanks Skeptic - some great info here.

As a sidenote I recall reading an article (I think it was Doc Rock but cannot recall - it was a larger scale breeder) who recommended a similar regime for getting the best out of Murray Darlings. It was along the lines of around 30c for a few hours a day and minimal to no heating otherwise. As I recall there was no mention of DPS, but I think they were better breeders and generally overall healthier when kept like this. A similar statement was also made about Bredli.

Maybe we are becoming too accustomed to all the tropical northern species and morphs etc and forgetting about the husbandry of the inland and cooler climate species?

Certainly has given me some food for thought....has been a productive exercise.

Here's another old thread worth reading on the subject. Very interesting. http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/experiences-dps-part-2-a-135920/

 

[Bart70]

Thanks,

Again some very interesting reading that will take me a few more reads with a good thinking head to sink in and contemplate the full impacts. On the surface, my Intergrades mother is 15 years old so I guess that is a good sign that given her age and the hypothesis that DPS can be 'caught' from surrounding snakes/environments if she has gotten to 15 it is a good sign that she has not been exposed to DPS and hence my hatchy may not either?

Thanks again for the links