Do reptiles need mental stimulation?

Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum

Help Support Aussie Pythons & Snakes Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Would snakes thrive with mental stimulation

  • Yes, I think so.

    Votes: 102 72.9%
  • Definetly not.

    Votes: 22 15.7%
  • Huh?

    Votes: 16 11.4%

  • Total voters
    140
Status
Not open for further replies.

Tatelina

Very Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
3,707
Reaction score
0
Location
Sydney
In the way of climbing branches, hides, different textured substrate, wide spaces to roam.....

I'm well aware that snakes do well with access to heat and coolness, water and food only.. but what do you think?

Would snakes benefit from mental stimulation?

Discuss.
 
i think its good for them to have different items to climb on and different things to smell
 
Not mental stimulation, but those additions to an enclosure could be beneficial to muscle tone etc.

Jordan
 
I believe Snakey behaves much better when I take him out and allow him to be stimulated by different smells, textures (what he moves over), and different experiences such as climbing. I have noticed when he isn't taken out, he tends to go 'stir crazy' and spends the night time trying to get out and being distructive such as turning over the water bowl and anything else. I also like to change his click clack furniture around occasionally so he has things to explore.
 
I think to a degree, they need some physical stimulus such as something to climb on, different textures etc. When it comes to providing mental stimulation I don't think snakes have too much mentally, to stimulate.
 
All animals need enrichment, and the more like their natural environment something is the better their mental position should theoretically be.

If you evolved to live in environment XYZRST and you are now placed into an environment which only provides RS, then the evolved mechanisms that are still functioning will be causing differeing psychological and physilogical input.

Hence, the reason why zoos etc, provide enrichment for their animals and why any one with a pet should too.
 
I thought Zoos (reptile wise) really only did it for display purposes, because their
off exhibit abodes out of the general publics sight aren't that stimulating thats for sure.

I certainly side with Jordan on this, physical benefits sure, psychological benefits i doubt.
 
I think a lot of their keepers need more mental stimulation............................Physical yes but I havent had my womas IQ assessed as yet.
 
All animals need enrichment, and the more like their natural environment something is the better their mental position should theoretically be.

If you evolved to live in environment XYZRST and you are now placed into an environment which only provides RS, then the evolved mechanisms that are still functioning will be causing differeing psychological and physilogical input.

Hence, the reason why zoos etc, provide enrichment for their animals and why any one with a pet should too.

Very good point.

I find that the 'higher' animals such as the birds and especially the parrots really need it. It can be something as simple as a new branch with lots of leafy foliage to nibble on and bark to tear. The dog is visibly morose when she isn't being challenged/stimulated mentally. And as I said before, Snakey tends to quieten down when he's had activity times, especially varied activity.

I think that being stimulated, is just getting the animal to experience new sensations no matter what their brain size or power is. I believe that everything 'thinks' to a degree, even if that thought is only a simple one.
 
I thought Zoos (reptile wise) really only did it for display purposes, because their
off exhibit abodes out of the general publics sight aren't that stimulating.

The off exhibit displays of 90% of zoo animals are need only basis. There is still an economic CvB ratio to apply. Zebra, Giraffe, etc, are all kept in stable type set ups for the night, but this provides, safe environment for them that can be easily managed.

But off display is only off for a particular reason, illness etc.

By placing an animal into an environment that replicates the natural ecology, the 60 mil years of evolution is aroused. Just put a blue tongue on bark, and they will dig in. Thus it is strikingly obvious to see that animals performing their natural behaviour is far more beneficial to them than not

All sorts of caveats need to be placed on this sort of thing for safety of the animal, i.e. though it is natural, feeding the animal live food etc, has the down side of possible injury to the animal. Howver, establishing an enriched environment generally doesnt, thus allowing the animal to behaviour normally.

"T-rex doesnt want to be fed he wants to hunt, you cant just supress 60 mil years of evolution"
Dr Grant
 
I think a lot of their keepers need more mental stimulation............................Physical yes but I havent had my womas IQ assessed as yet.

All animals and humans need mental stimulation. It has nothing to do with IQ, its all about mental activity and keeping the brain active (like what the pensioners recommend). That's why I like to do certain things like take my python out twice a week, occasionally hide meals, occasionally wiggle them around in front of his nose, change his house around every now and then and give him new logs. With my other less handable reptiles I offer them different food and treats every now and then.

In the wild the snakes i have observed are so curious and active... They have such variety and so many different places and smells to explore! Sometimes I almost feel cruel locking them in a glass box day in day out with white walls and a few playthings. Which is why I like to take him out into the fresh air every now and then (however I agree that handling each day is likely stressful on the animal).

I will always do my best to provide both mental and pyhsical stimulation for all my animals...
 
I strongly agree that all animals should be kept in environments which alow them to display natural behaviours.

eg. aborial snakes should have access to branches to climb,
burrowing species should be kept on a substrate that allows them to burrow.

Lizzie
 
Isn't that why we put newspaper in their vivariums. so they can catch up on current world news. I always make sure the sudoku is faceing up so they have something to stimulate their little brains.
 
As said with snakes i think its more to do with the phisical side of things. I dont think a snake would go crazy if it was bored the all the time(i dont think snake can get bored). Suitable cage setup is required to prevent the snake stressing out. I think having to thermoregulate, feed, hide, drink and possibly mate is all the stimulation they would need.
 
All animals need enrichment, and the more like their natural environment something is the better their mental position should theoretically be.

If you evolved to live in environment XYZRST and you are now placed into an environment which only provides RS, then the evolved mechanisms that are still functioning will be causing differeing psychological and physilogical input.

What species of ticks do you use for your snakes? Where do you get them? How do you introduce your intestinal worms? Do you simulate predatory attacks by cutting your snakes with blades and compressing their bodies in vices or do you actually get a dog to gnaw and thrash around with them? Once in how many years do you simulate a bad season in terms of food availability by starving your snake to the point where it's close to death? On what time frame do you simulate a larger animal pushing you snake out of its preferred refuge and force it to endure unfavourable temperatures?

etc etc etc etc etc.

It is a complete myth that animals in the wild live in an ideal environment. They have evolved to cope with a hostile and more often than not deadly environment, not a warm, fuzzy, loving one. When it comes to animals with simple needs, such as many snakes, we can quite easily give them much better lives than they'd have in the wild. Compare a typical captive snake with a typical wild one and you quickly see the difference.

I actually wrote my honours thesis on the topic. People interested in learning about this properly rather than following reptile forum myth might like to read up about the concepts of fundamental and realised ecological niches.

It's good news! We can be happy and proud about providing our animals with wonderful lives, much better than their wild counterparts have. We don't need to live with feelings of guilt about being unable to make our animals happy; we can leave that to the bird keepers.

;) ;) ;) (To all the ornis out there :lol: )
 
wide spaces to roam.....

That one flies in the face of reasonably well accepted wisdom which says that snakes can begin to exhibit stress release behaviours in enclosures which are too big.
 
:lol: i was going to say something, but you did a much better job. What exactly was your thesis on?
 
:lol: i was going to say something, but you did a much better job. What exactly was your thesis on?

In a very small nut shell, my thesis was looking at the requirements and preferences of animals in order to map their potential distributions. It was being done as an alternative way of species distribution projection/prediction. The way it is usually done is to look at the known distrubution, select environmental parameters arbitrarily and look for correlations - a very cheap but extremely poor way of doing it, in fact, all the normal method does is a poor job of describing the currently known realised niche, and doesn't even begin to describe, let alone explain the fundamental/potential niche (having said that, there are cases where you actually want to describe the currently realised niche rather than determine the fundamental/potential niche, but the most common use of the usual system is to predict species distributions, which is usually a ridiculous way of doing it). The advent of GIS makes the system I was developing possible. It's much, much better, but much, much more expensive. I was mainly looking at temperature as an environmental variable, but I also looked at vegetation, rainfall and several others, and if you take a species of interest you can use the method to work things out. The more complex the animals' needs, the more difficult and expensive the process is. Basically, you test the animal in the lab, work out what its ideal conditions are, what its extremes of tolerance are, and put each trait over the respective GIS layer. What you generally find is that the ideal niche and the realised niche (what the animal would do best in and what it actually experiences in the wild) are extremely different. To give an extreme example, animals living in harsh deserts are adapted to living without much water, because otherwise they couldn't live where they do. When it rains a lot, there's a lot of water, they drink, they grow, they breed, they flourish, they thrive. They have all these extreme adaptations to living in such a horrible environment, but they don't want that horrible environment, they want the nice environment. So why don't they live in a nice environment? Because they are outcompeted in the nice areas by animals which don't put resources into having adaptations to the extreme environment. There are more subtle things going on in less extreme environments, but the same sort of thing is going on (water availability isn't the only stress animals have). I'd explain more, but this post is long enough for you to read and I don't feel like typing more :p

Funnily enough, I just spoke to my honours supervisor today for the first time in about a year. The results of my thesis should be published in 2009, which will be pretty cool :) More than two years after writing it I still haven't actually read the whole thing through from start to finish :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top