Trangender/ freaks? Too young?

[horsesrule]

I agree it has changed a lot.

Some for the better some for the worse.

I know when i was in high school "queers, gays and cross dressers" were ridiculed abused and assaulted.

If you had a brain you would never announe it if you were.

I remember we had a cross dressing gay male in high school, and the problems it caused were enormous.

The males did not want him using there toilets fearing being perved on
The females didnt want him in there toilet either.

In the end he had to use the principals toilet.

I do recall though this particular individual would talk openly and glote about his cross dressing and was rather in your face about it. This offended many and probably resulted in the torment that this person was subjected to. I do recall this person was locked in a disused toiled for almost a full day on a few occasions.

This was intollerance and bigotry.

I never agreed with this and never participated.

However we are all entitled to oppinions.

So all you who think because i choose a different opinion i am a bigot you have all now been proved wrong.

 

[jessb]

I agree it has changed a lot.

Some for the better some for the worse.

I know when i was in high school "queers, gays and cross dressers" were ridiculed abused and assaulted.

If you had a brain you would never announe it if you were.

I remember we had a cross dressing gay male in high school, and the problems it caused were enormous.

The males did not want him using there toilets fearing being perved on
The females didnt want him in there toilet either.

In the end he had to use the principals toilet.

I do recall though this particular individual would talk openly and glote about his cross dressing and was rather in your face about it. This offended many and probably resulted in the torment that this person was subjected to. I do recall this person was locked in a disused toiled for almost a full day on a few occasions.

Aaaah, now I see, it was HIS fault that he was abused by inbred rednecks! Now it all makes sense.

On a similar note, we had a very camp, gay guy in our highschool, and loads of people didn't like him, but mostly because he was an annoying tw at. His sexuality had nothing to do with it LOL.

 

[the.badger]

I do recall though this particular individual would talk openly and glote about his cross dressing and was rather in your face about it. This offended many and probably resulted in the torment that this person was subjected to. I do recall this person was locked in a disused toiled for almost a full day on a few occasions.

This was intollerant and bigotry.

JessB, I think Horsesrule is saying that the people who locked him in the toilet and tormented him were intolerant bigots, NOT that the trans guy was a bigot because he was open about crossdressing. I hope so anyway.

 

[horsesrule]

Aaaah, now I see, it was HIS fault that he was abused by inbred rednecks! Now it all makes sense.

On a similar note, we had a very camp, gay guy in our highschool, and loads of people didn't like him, but mostly because he was an annoying tw at. His sexuality had nothing to do with it LOL.

Nope he did not deserved to be abused.

However if he had kept his lifestyle to himself and not brought it to school well i doubt he would have had any problems at all.

 

[horsesrule]

JessB, I think Horsesrule is saying that the people who locked him in the toilet and tormented him were intolerant bigots, NOT that the trans guy was a bigot because he was open about crossdressing. I hope so anyway.

Yes i was.

 

[the.badger]

However if he had kept his lifestyle to himself and not brought it to school well i doubt he would have had any problems at all.

I think the opposite is true - that if he felt he had to hide his trans nature, he would have developed a lot of phsychological problems revolving around identity and self esteem.

I think it's sad that trans people should have to be forced to make that decidion in this day and age, but unfortunately I have no doubt that negative judgement on this issue is still alive and well.

 

[jessb]

Nope he did not deserved to be abused.

However if he had kept his lifestyle to himself and not brought it to school well i doubt he would have had any problems at all.

Both those statements contradict each other.

 

[notechistiger]

However if he had kept his lifestyle to himself and not brought it to school well i doubt he would have had any problems at all.

Ah, so what happened to free speech? Why stop at gays and transgenders? Let's go further and prevent children of other cultures from speaking of it. Religious people must also conform to Christianity- as that is the most common religion.

horserule, you have obviously not put any thought into this, and quite frankly, it sounds as if you were brought up in a home where nothing could be different. Did you have the urge to touch other girls whilst growing up? Going from your comments thus far, it sounds like your parents would have suppressed any of those disgusting tendencies.

I don't think you're a bigot. I think you're extremely closed minded, and very intolerant of others' views and beliefs. If you don't like it, then shut up. Yes, it's your opinion, but no one wants to hear how much a freak you think they are. If you want to go and spout on about superior you are, then go onto a forum dedicated to that and you and all your other superior buddies can have loads of fun.

One of my closest friend's is gay, and one of my cousins is transgender. You know what, they are the nicest, most accepting people I have ever met. A far cry from you and all your "normal" ideologies.

 

[horsesrule]

Both those statements contradict each other.

Nope not at all i went to a western suburbs state school what did he expect?

Teachers used to be beat up so it would have been common sense not to make any waves.

It was different back then violence at school was a way of life.

 

[the.badger]

Ah, so what happened to free speech? Why stop at gays and transgenders?

How can you talk about "free speech" and then say:

If you don't like it, then shut up. Yes, it's your opinion, but no one wants to hear how much a freak you think they are.

You may not agree with Horsesrule's opinions, but she has just as much right to voice her opinions in this thread as you have to voice yours. After all, the creator of this thread has specifically asked for our opinions on the matter. And Horsesrule has been much more polite about it than you have. I think it's a bit rich to accuse Horsesrule of a superiority complex, and of being intolerant of other peoples' opinions and beliefs, and then go on to submit a post like your previous one.

 

[horsesrule]

Ah, so what happened to free speech? Why stop at gays and transgenders? Let's go further and prevent children of other cultures from speaking of it. Religious people must also conform to Christianity- as that is the most common religion.

horserule, you have obviously not put any thought into this, and quite frankly, it sounds as if you were brought up in a home where nothing could be different. Did you have the urge to touch other girls whilst growing up? Going from your comments thus far, it sounds like your parents would have suppressed any of those disgusting tendencies.

I don't think you're a bigot. I think you're extremely closed minded, and very intolerant of others' views and beliefs. If you don't like it, then shut up. Yes, it's your opinion, but no one wants to hear how much a freak you think they are. If you want to go and spout on about superior you are, then go onto a forum dedicated to that and you and all your other superior buddies can have loads of fun.

One of my closest friend's is gay, and one of my cousins is transgender. You know what, they are the nicest, most accepting people I have ever met. A far cry from you and all your "normal" ideologies.

I have not said anyone is superior so dont go distorting what i have actually said.

I have my reasons for my beliefs.

And no i have never had any thoughts or desires to be with someone of the same sex the thought of it makes me cringe.

Oh and yes i find when people cant win a discussion with reason they resort to insults or attacks.

Anyway getting back to the topic isnt being a GOOD parent about putting the child's BEST interests first???

Allowing your child to cross dress or in anyway facilitate this is certainly not putting the childs best interests first.

 

[notechistiger]

That's the first time I contributed to the discussion. Close minded people make me angry (if you can't tell).

the.badger, free speech wasn't what I meant, but I'm too tired right now to think of what I did mean. I'll remember in the morning.

 

[Crystal..Discus]

*headdesk* *Headdesk* *HEADDESK*

This has turned into a witch hunt. We're smoking out all the people with strong objections and basically gang-raping them. All I have to say is that yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion -- just don't go about provoking people with it (because it makes you just as guilty as the people going after your hides).

Cheesy music and 'heart-fett' confessions aside, the parents of transgender children aren't 'indulging' them as one is lead to believe; for the time being, they are doing what they think is best, making sure they know that their child is loved and cared for, and being brought up knowing he/she is accepted by them. When their child gets a little older, and starts forming opinions they'll probably be more than happy to work with what he/she has to say in the matter -- which is the right way to go.

Forcing a child at a young age to be something that he/she isn't is more often than not, asking for a psychological outburst of repressed emotions and confusion when they get older. As an example; as a child, I was forced to play with girls and barbies instead of doing what I wanted to do -- which was sports, rough housing and general havoc and stupidity. My parents flat out refused until I got to a certain age (10) before I could be 'one of the guys.' Which is too late because by the age of 8 we have already formed a consious desicion making process which tells us boys/girls are yukie (Until about the age of 13...*sigh*)

Now I have a partial complex towards barbies where I avoid everything pink and frilly, and over indulge in 'masculine' activities often ignoring any balance between said masculine activities and feminine mannerisms. (Which most of you know can be a bad thing for one's psyche :?)

There's so much more I could say (like how society impacts on these children), but I'll cut it off here. While the child is young, I'm going to agree with the parents and give them my full support.

 

[notechistiger]

Allowing your child to cross dress or in anyway facilitate this is certainly not putting the childs best interests first.

How do you know? Are you are child psychologist?

 

[Recharge]

Allowing your child to cross dress or in anyway facilitate this is certainly not putting the childs best interests first.

how exactly? what difference does clothing make exactly? I'm waiting with baited breath to the answer to this

and on

isnt being a GOOD parent about putting the child's BEST interests first???

please, do express what exactly IS the best interests of the child? accepting that people are different? that it doesn't matter how you are as long as you are a good person? (regardless of your gender or sexual persuasion) how about sharing and being a decent human being?
I'm sure you have the best intentions in your belief structure, but the road to hell is paved in them.
I'm still waiting for you to explain how exactly this is all so bad?, the child feels that way, let them do it, as long as it isn't a negative thing on being a good person.
if they grow out of it fine, if they don't, fine
if you impose such things, they'll just repress the issues and develop psychological issues that'll hamper them later on.
what exactly do you object to here, and why? because I'm having trouble working out your angle

 

[Vat69]

Recharge, agreeing to debate this topic denotes value in the opposing person's argument, and in this case there isn't any.
We don't debate the occurrence of the Jewish Holocaust because it's a truth. There's little point debating this here. Unless you just really want to.
I just hate to see reasonable thought go to waste

 

[Recharge]

there is good reason to debate in this instance, even if I can't open another's mind, I can at least understand their logic over their belief (or even if there IS any logic)
it's easy to just ignore people in things like this, I like to make it dificult on myself and at least try to get them to express their real reasoning

it may pave a way for me to understand better how to open someone else's mind in the future

all of us have beliefs in things that are illogical or down right stupid, it's a human trait to want to believe things that will force the world to conform to our comfort zones.
imagine if psychology never took the time to try to understand the human mind because it was dificult?
there's always a chance it'll help you in some other area, to try to understand the way and reasons some people believe things, maybe even helpful to ourselves to see what we personally believe to be so.
or even further enforce what we already believe.

in truth it's hard not to get angry sometimes, but, patience has it's rewards

 

[=bECS=]

I have not said anyone is superior so dont go distorting what i have actually said.

I have my reasons for my beliefs.

And no i have never had any thoughts or desires to be with someone of the same sex the thought of it makes me cringe.

Oh and yes i find when people cant win a discussion with reason they resort to insults or attacks.

Anyway getting back to the topic isnt being a GOOD parent about putting the child's BEST interests first???

Allowing your child to cross dress or in anyway facilitate this is certainly not putting the childs best interests first.

Horsesrule, you have said about 4 or 5 times now you have reasons for your opinion on this, yet you fail to state what they are, the only explanation you use is 'i am from old school opinions'

To me, this is a cop out, i was brought up around 'old school idealologies' as well, but instead of following along with what i was being told what to think, i chose to have an open mind and look at life from both sides of the coin.

So i am curious............ what are the 'real' reasons you have formed this opinion on those who are not heterosexuals or act as what you see to be appropriate and normal? Or are you just blindly following what you have been told to believe?

To me, surgery is taking things abit far, as its been said it is irreversible, and kids being kids, whos to say they wont change their minds down the track.
I wouldn't allow my children to do something like that until they were old enough to sign the forms for themselves, if they still felt that way at the age of 18, it would be more than just a phase.

Being a parent myself, i support my children in whatever they wish to do (within reason) as long as it doesn't break any laws and end up with the police at my door. :lol:

 

[Vat69]

I understand what you're saying and I agree. I just happen to disagree in this instance. For myself in any case. I'm certainly not making a blanket argument, not even close, I just wasn't being clear.
There is logic being used it's just a different logic from ours.
I'm not at all saying don't debate because it's too difficult, I just think in this particular instance the rewards, if any, will not be worth the time spent to acquire them. More along the lines of 'choosing your battle'.
One of my all time favourite quotes happens to be Aristotle's "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." So believe me when I tell you I understand where you're comming from.
I say all of this only after having seeing the content of the back and forth.
Well then, enjoy

 

[daniel1234]

My bit

What an amazing thread. I hope it stays open.
I had a friend in primary school who I knew until my early teens. He was very feminine, would pretend to were dresses, sing in a very girly sort of way, blah blah blah. The next time I saw him I must of been pushing 20yo and he had a girl friend etc.

I agree religion is the curse of todays world. I think the higher powers are/would be appalled by the way many insist that we worship/believe in them.

I think that support is a very difficult task in this instance. For example I support my daughters choice to attend Sunday School. I also support my boys choice not to attend.
My kids are 7 and 6 years old. My girl is a girl, but plays with my boys cars--sometimes all three of us play together. My boy used to play with my daughters dolls, he chooses not to at the moment. If they sought recognition for their play, I would give that to them as I would for any other activity.

I don't feel that the parents decision to "support" the children is wrong, and after all we really don't know exactly how they came to that decision. Hopefully it was not a decision but rather a progression of events. That way the children are "free" to get bored of the idea, or continue with it as the case seems to be. I wonder how the kids decide, or even find out about hormone theraphy, at such a young age.

I must admit, I was working agency once and there was a gay nurse on permanent roster (so every one knew who he was) who very casually included a comment about his friend who is a cross-dresser. I was a little shocked i guess at such casual reference to such activity. So I went home and reflected on that and concluded what most here have also, So what?!

Finally, those who are extravertidly outside what you or I regard as normal should be envied. For they have nothing to hide behind. They can no longer pretend to be and therefore hide behind something they are not. They can do nothing more than celebrate who they really are.

Ok goodnight.
zzzzzzzz