Tribal Carpets

[snakes73]

There is no reason to believe that a beast has to come with beauty
99% of python regius or ball python morphs have no neuro and I have never heard of any neuro problems with retics or burmese morphs

The Neuro problems with Jags didnt seem to appear until long after Jan Engels first bred them
First reports of neuro came about 2 years after Iryan Jayas were introduced into the Jag line by the Germans Dutch and Yanks

Jan has always stated that none of his original Jags ever showed neuro problems and so far I have never found any evidence to doubt this

How does that explain neuro conditions in pure coastal jaguars? Are you saying that it is a highly virulent virus that came from IJ's and locked onto the jaguar gene in all carpet pythons?

Jan Engels was a fibber.

Also there are more than 1% of royal python morphs that incorporate the spider gene which is similar to the jaguar gene in its patterning and its neuro side effects.

 

[Kurto]

Hey look... Another quality thread on APS gone to ****! Wow! I would have never guessed!

 

[darwin_freak]

can you say what mix these are? have they been line breed or just popped up?

 

[jinjajoe]

Actually I would like to get you started on these claims. Do you have evidence or are you exagerrating to prove a point?

Having worked with all of & bred some of the following Albino animals;

Darwins
Olives
Bearded Dragons
Blue Tongues
Tree Skinks
Oscar Fish

All of them have reduced vigour (not to be confused with reproductive capacity in some cases) in one way shape or form usually multiple when compared to their equivalent wild type animal not displaying Albinism & that is not opinion simply fact.

 

[abnrmal91]

Just some pics of the parents. Definitely "Tribal Carpet"

Just joking. The snakes look interesting. Should be good to see how they grow.

 

[crocodile_dan]

Jinjajoe: whilst albinism itself does show some fitness reduction, specifically visual acuity and obvious melanin protection from lightwaves. Do you attribute their "reduced vigour" (not physiological inhibitors as above) to albinism present in organisms or to the genetic depression occurring through captive selective breeding?

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Ok had a quick flick threw the thread .

No jag gene ?.
No funky incubation ? .

Looks like both of the above were used in this clutch .
The funky incubation would make all the normals from the jag clutch look funky just like thread below…..

Jag plus the funky incubation = these results. IMO
Last year it was claimed these were natural ? but most died ?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/unusual-jungle-pics-151930/

NO MYSTERY AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED ....

 

[jinjajoe]

Jinjajoe: whilst albinism itself does show some fitness reduction, specifically visual acuity and obvious melanin protection from lightwaves. Do you attribute their "reduced vigour" (not physiological inhibitors as above) to albinism present in organisms or to the genetic depression occurring through captive selective breeding?

Impossible to answer without a wild type Albino colony to use as a control.

 

[vitticep]

I didnt think it would take long for jag breeders to start discrediting the line :lol:

ewwww, I would hate to be working on jag projects atm lol

 

[Red-Ink]

I understand the secrecy from the breeders point of view.... but this hinting stuff really ain't doing the community any good. Maybe it would have been better with full disclosure if they wanted to release them into the market. If they were'nt ready yet, they probably should have just stayed in the shadows for a while.

 

[ssssmithy]

Ok had a quick flick threw the thread .

No jag gene ?.
No funky incubation ? .

Looks like both of the above were used in this clutch .
The funky incubation would make all the normals from the jag clutch look funky just like thread below…..

Jag plus the funky incubation = these results. IMO
Last year it was claimed these were natural ? but most died ?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/unusual-jungle-pics-151930/

NO MYSTERY AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED ....

My thoughts exactly Rog.

 

[Retic]

As I said right at the beginning Roger I was surprised no one had mentioned incubation. I'm not saying it is the cause but the wacky patterns are very reminiscent of being incubation related.

I'm NOT a Jag breeder LOL.

Ok had a quick flick threw the thread .

No jag gene ?.
No funky incubation ? .

Looks like both of the above were used in this clutch .
The funky incubation would make all the normals from the jag clutch look funky just like thread below…..

Jag plus the funky incubation = these results. IMO
Last year it was claimed these were natural ? but most died ?
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/unusual-jungle-pics-151930/

NO MYSTERY AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED ....

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Yer Ash, to me its obvious .
Anonymous breeder makes amazing new discovery . lol....

 

[saximus]

I don't think I've ever seen so many "old hats" in one thread before. It's a little overwhelming; I feel like a little kid surrounded by grown ups.

So how come incubation causes weird stuff like this? Do incorrect temps cause "defects" during their development?

 

[Retic]

It's the first thing I thought of to be honest Roger even before assuming they were Jags. We have been told they don't suffer any neuro issues but are still hatching and the entire clutch is the same which kind of discounts any genetic mutation. I am more than happy to be proven wrong, it's not going to have any affect on me so it's largely irrelevant anyway from a personal standpoint but if they prove to be a new genetic line well done to the breeder.

 

[ssssmithy]

It's the first thing I thought of to be honest even before assuming they were Jags. We have been told they don't suffer any neuro issues but are still hatching and the entire clutch is the same which kind of discounts any genetic mutation. I am more than happy to be proven wrong, it's not going to have any affect on me so it's largely irrelevant anyway from a personal standpoint but if they prove to be a new genetic line well done to the breeder.

thats it Ash, if it is so then hats off and it will be a good thing for the hobby.
but the odds are slim to none.
pics of parents would be good? i think i read somewhere in the thread they are from "mixed morelia" ?
also i know jag breeders who don't see neuro issues in there snakes, i think some people assume they all hatch out of the egg throwing cartwheels.
we know know you don't achieve these results by a simple striped jungle to striped jungle...if we did the likes of roger and Nev and the stock's and more breeders would have produced the likes of these already.

 

[Retic]

Lets face it people generally are pretty sceptical especially in this hobby, I am a glass half full optimist but when given little snippets of information but told we can't really know the whole story just yet we become rightly suspicious. It would be the same if I suddenly came up with a clutch of albino mcdowelli and said they had no Darwin blood in them, people would be sceptical.

 

[ssssmithy]

haha thats it, but albinos popping up in a coastal clutch is believable they are 1 in 10,000 after all
but snakes that look like massively reduced jags, even more reason to sceptical. lol

 

[darwin_freak]

I can see a bright future in coming years; Oenpelli pythons entering the hobby and now this.

exactly just imagine what the Oenpelli will look like once they start breeding it to everything designer reduce pattern bright yellow het albino Oenpelli I can't wait

 

[longqi]

How does that explain neuro conditions in pure coastal jaguars? Are you saying that it is a highly virulent virus that came from IJ's and locked onto the jaguar gene in all carpet pythons?

Jan Engels was a fibber.

Also there are more than 1% of royal python morphs that incorporate the spider gene which is similar to the jaguar gene in its patterning and its neuro side effects.

Jag is not a virus.. its a set of genes or perhaps only one gene... but if anyone can show that there was ever any talk about neuro before the IJs were introduced I would love to know about it

There is no such thing as a 'pure coastal jaguar'
The Jags that were smuggled into Aus doubtless had some IJ in them because IJs were all the rage for producing Jags at that time
Jag is a term used to describe a particular gene set that produces some amazing colours and also contains incurable neurological problems to greater or lesser extent
Every Jag carries these genes or else its NOT a Jag

Jan Engels is a highly respected breeder who fluked something, and most definitely does not seem to deserve the name fibber because experts were trying to prove he lied about this for more than 10 years and couldnt prove he said one word wrong

There are very few spider royals and spider throw offs such as bumblebees with neuro in existence, in comparison to all the other successful neuro free morphs so get your facts straight [they would actually be a tiny fraction of 1%]