Overfeeding = small head?

[Anthon]

Hello

I read in a python care book that it's common for owners to overfeed they're pythons and that this results in a small head when the python is fully grown. I got worried that I was doing that, so started feeding my year old Bredl's python an adult mouse every two weeks rather than every one.

Here's a pic of her on a 40cm ruler. I was wondering if she's developing ok and if I should be feeding her more or less ... plus I'm pretty certain her head doesn't seem to be growing that much.



Thanks!

Anthony

 

[Australis]

Looks fine... the "pin head" thing is a bit of a fallacy.. if you stop feeding it at all i guarantee its head will become larger in comparison to its body.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

My understanding of the small head thing is feeding too small a food item but high quantity is rather irrelevant. Many new keepers worry about item size when they start, difficult for me to give a guideline on what size food as a large mouse from one retailer can be much different in size to a large mouse in another.

Your snake looks well proportioned in my opinion but I think 1 mouse is not enough looking at the pic. I prefer too feed larger meals on a less frequent basis but everyone has their own opinion.

I personally can't believe that a snake would manage to find a single mouse every second Sunday at 5pm if here in the wild. If you get my drift.

​

 

[cwebb]

Your snake looks fine
if youre worried, dont be.. my bredli is 15 months and has a sub adult rat once every 5 days.. hes just over 500 grams atm

 

[CaptainRatbag]

added a bit

People saying a snake has a small head from overfeeding, are more likely to mean the head looks small compared to the body of the snake (bottle shaped)
Head size should be genetic (ie coastals generally have bigger more pronounced head, spotties generally smaller, bredlis quite large but a little shorter snout).... so really there is not much you can do to change that. Having said that tho, I am sure from seeing some of the wild coastals around here, some do have bigger (Huge!) heads than others, this could be from the size of the wild rats I see around here! :shock: My take on that, would be slight mutations (larger head size) from the size of prey they consume. My advice for something to try, is to feed your boy larger food, I would suggest you change to rat weeners or small adult rats (as big as he can take). Just tonight I fed my bredli (1550mm) and coastal (1500mm) a small adult rat (which looks far too big for them) and they destroyed them in seconds (as usual) :shock:They can take easily way bigger food than you would think possible

Some species of python (BHP & Woma from memory) do not take well to too much food, they can devellop fatty liver disease as they dont digest fat well. Most other pythons (spotted, carpet, bredli... which I keep) tend to have less trouble with FLD but can become obese (bottle shaped) if over fed.

I would reccommend feeding her larger (rats) less often. I feed my lot (young adult bredli, carpet, spotteds) a large rat (for the snakes size) every 10 days or there abouts. The typical 'feed' for a python, from what I have been told/read is 15-20% of thier body weight every 2 weeks. I prefer to break this in 2 and give them a smaller feed every 10 days or so, otherwise they tend to be 'hunting' after about day 10 & I feel sorry for them :lol:

Feeding larger items may encourage the head to grow bigger, if that is actually possible.

 

[Boa2112]

In short, the pin-head look is due to the owner feeding the snake too much, the body grows faster than it is suppose to and the head will continue to grow at a much slower rate (because it contains the eyes, brain and is simply more complex) so you get a snake with a body too big for its age but it's head is just right. eventually the head will catch up and match the body, just make sure you never "power-feed" which is feeding a snake too much or multiple items at a go.

 

[whyme]

In short, the pin-head look is due to the owner feeding the snake too much, the body grows faster than it is suppose to and the head will continue to grow at a much slower rate (because it contains the eyes, brain and is simply more complex) so you get a snake with a body too big for its age but it's head is just right. eventually the head will catch up and match the body, just make sure you never "power-feed" which is feeding a snake too much or multiple items at a go.

Why not multiple items? For the first 20 odd months after hatching, I have never had a problem with heavy feeding. I don't really understand the term "powerfeeding". I get the hatchies nice and big, and then start to regulate everything. I feed my hatchies 2 odd feeds every 4-5 days and have never had a problem. Anything on fish may get more.

 

[CaptainRatbag]

I feed multiple small rats if I dont have the right size? I understand the size of a 'feed' should be about 15-20% of its bodyweight every 10-14 days. My 500g coastal gets 2x50g rats as a feed (if I only had 40g rats, he would get 3)

I think boa means just feeding too many at a time? like if you have a 500g snake and give him 5x50g rats. Is that right Boa?

 

[Boa2112]

Why not multiple items? For the first 20 odd months after hatching, I have never had a problem with heavy feeding. I don't really understand the term "powerfeeding". I get the hatchies nice and big, and then start to regulate everything. I feed my hatchies 2 odd feeds every 4-5 days and have never had a problem. Anything on fish may get more.

Hatchlings are a different story, powerfeeding is almost impossible to do with hatchlings as they use almost all that food to grow, but once they hit a certain length, they start to put on excess fat and grow too quickly for their age and develop a pin heat and a chubby body.

I still say avoid feeding more than one rodent at a time especially if its a older snake, but if its very young, it shouldn't do any harm.

 

[Asharee133]

o.o your bredli is tiiiiiiny! My boy was that size when he was 9 months! he's just turned two and is 5ft and about as thick as a rexona deoderant can

 

[Jungletrans]

Don't worry about it . Personally I like a little head :]

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

thats one underfed bredli you got there,most people do underfeed there pythons in the early stages

 

[longqi]

When we get relocates we usually try to feed them before release
A 2 metre retic or burmese will barely slow down scoffing 5 big rats or 3 big guinea pigs
Most wild retics etc have much larger and significantly more clearly defined heads than pet ones
This would lead to the assumption that their prey is often a lot larger than pet ones get

 

[CaptainRatbag]

Weigh her and use 20% as a guide. If she is 500g she will need a feed of about 100g of rat. If she cant fit a 100g rat, two 50g rats should be fine. When I feed multiples, I wait until the snake has re-set its jaw before offering the second, so the snake doesnt strike for the next rat with its jaw still out of place, miss the rat and hit something else on the 'follow thru' and damage the jaw

Longqi, Whats your take on feeding multiple rats to make up the amount (weight) needed?

 

[wokka]

Is a small head bad or a large head bad or doesn't it matter? I think muscle tone is more important to the health of a snake.

 

[Boa2112]

When we get relocates we usually try to feed them before release
A 2 metre retic or burmese will barely slow down scoffing 5 big rats or 3 big guinea pigs
Most wild retics etc have much larger and significantly more clearly defined heads than pet ones
This would lead to the assumption that their prey is often a lot larger than pet ones get

i actually read a whole scientific study on this subject on boas, they fed one group only small mice and multiples of them, and one group only fed large rats, both receive equal amount of weight of food. in the end it did not cause the skull or jaws to grow larger in either case, however boa's fed only mice put on more weight, and boa's only fed large rats did develop larger jaw muscles.

however it may be a completely different story for different snakes.

my boa has very large "cheeks" because i feed rabbits, the snake must use those jaw muscles to down the food, she is large enough now when she takes rats she barely has to "unhinge" her jaw.

 

[waruikazi]

I have found 'Pin head' syndrome in wild pythons, quite regularly in some species. This leads me to believe that it is not a problem and is a normal phase in their development.

 

[wokka]

A similar study at university of western Syney concluded that there seemed to be no detremental effects from "power" feeding vs minimal feeding. I think pinhead syndrome should be referred to as pinhead falacy!

 

[Boa2112]

hmm. I guess its just best to judge by muscle definition and whether or not there is any skin folding or exposed skin between scales to tell if the snake is under/over fed or fed just right.

 

[Snowman]

http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/general-reptile-discussion-42/cause-microcephaly-pythons-94040/