A question about BHP breeding

[munkee]

Hi all,
I'm curious about the talk people say about needing multiple males to successfully breed the black headed pythons. I've talked to some people who say there is no real secret they cost more because of small clutch sizes. And I've read on the site that some people reckon three pairs are needed to breed properly.

This is a direct interest to me as I have a bhp trio, two female and one male. I would like to hear from anyone who has had/bred bhps especially. But anyone who knows a bit about it is welcome to contribute.

I am trying to find out what feelings are predominant in the herping world about this issue.

Thanks for the help in advance. Cheers

 

[southy]

i know of people who breed without multiple males but its alot harder!

 

[ad]

munkee,
Breeding bhps requires multiple males imo. It is a very lucky man who has a male that will solo breed.
It does happen of course, but the exception more than the norm. Combatting is a major part of their mating imo.
Cheers
Ad

 

[Herc]

The best person I would suggest talking to is Shane from shanesaussie_pythons as he could really give you the best advice on how/what he does.

 

[munkee]

Ad what about placing a shed of another male. I visit Boa fairly regularly to talk his ear off and I buy rats off him. He has a male that I have suggested we swap male sheds. Borrowing the male may be a bit extreem but may be possible (his call).
The shed should help wouldn't you think?
With the combat being a major part of mating, is bhp populations dense enough to be sure they find another male in the wild to fight? Not having a go, you've bred more bhp than me.
I figured get the conditions right (temps, season, introduce at right time, etc) and they would respond accordingly.
If I lent Boa my male and brought him back to my females post battle a day or two later would he still jump them? Or is an immediate kind of thing?

 

[Jason]

The best person I would suggest talking to is Shane from shanesaussie_pythons as he could really give you the best advice on how/what he does.

he uses several males, i have seen them combat.

as said you can breed without two males but you would be pretty lucky, if i get a trio i would get two males and a female.

 

[ad]

Munkee,
Sheds may help with Morelia, but Aspidites prefer combat imo. You will be wasting your time with just a shed.
In the wild, i would find it remarkable if a bhp bred every single season - you could bet on every 2nd year or longer. Populations are in ranges/areas which would be dense enough - it isnt one bhp per 250km.
It is an immediate thing - combat then sex. You could have his male for a week then send both back to him etc. but I wouldnt want to move the animals around too much and you miss time with your female.
You may be lucky, your male might be a solo breeder and jump her immediately you put them together. Or you could spend a few seasons detirmining if he is not. Even if he is a solo breeder, combatting will only enhance his desires anyway imo.
There are no guarantees, just reduce 'maybe ifs' as much as possible.
Cheers
Ad

 

[munkee]

Currently I have 4Lx2Wx1.5H enclosures is it advisable to put three bhps in one this size or should I build a 'Love Nest' I have the material to build a 4Lx4Wx2H enclosure if needed. Do the animal go off their food during breeding season? I know some species do but I have had some difficulty finding bhp care info. My concern is a male getting eaten (reptile eaters and all). If they go off their food could I place the two females I have and the males in the said 'love nest' together or one female at a time?
There is no issue if same male bhp fights the same male several times over different girls?
I'm not going to try them unless they hit the six foot mark prior to the breeding season.

The help is greatly appreciated. Cheers

 

[TrueBlue]

Well just to stir the pot a bit, It is easier to breed bhps with more than 1 male but IMO Its not combat at all that does the trick. Female bhps perfer multiple mates simple as that. Combat is only used to stimulate males that arnt interested to mate. In the past when ever I only used 1 male over females it would be rare even with 4 or more females mated with the same male, but as soon as the female mates with at lest 1 other male you can almost garrantee eggs. Every time I let my females mate with 2 different males they become gravid, if I only use 1 male its a lucky dip.

 

[munkee]

So the love nest idea may have some validity, should the males be introduced at the same time to get combat then mating, remove the winner then let the loser mate the female?
Multiple introduction of the same male not the same thing though is it?
It would make linebreeding difficult though.
Multiple matings makes sense as well as combat.
I'm happy if things get stirred up as long as the issue remains on bhps :wink: .

 

[Retic]

Well being new to the whole breeding BHP's thing as well I may have sent Munkee in the wrong direction. Not as far as buying 2 females and 1 male but I was led to believe that 2 males are not strictly necessary and I think maybe I took it too literally. We may have to do a swap when the time comes next season Munkee :lol:

 

[steve6610]

hi,
i'm only new to breeding and have only bred coastals, but i asked the same question from the breeder i bought my bhp's from, he breeds bhp's every year and told me you only need one male, as i said i've never bred them yet, but i don't see how he would have told me something that he didn't think was true, more so seeing as i would have bought another male bhp from him, maybe he just has a very lucky dip, i'm open to breeders telling me i'm wrong, i'm just passing on info that i was told, but i'll find out myself in the next year or so,

cheers,
steve..........

 

[JandC_Reptiles]

munkee,
Breeding bhps requires multiple males imo. It is a very lucky man who has a male that will solo breed.
It does happen of course, but the exception more than the norm. Combatting is a major part of their mating imo.
Cheers
Ad

I have to disagree. 1 male will suffice, no combatting required.
I know plenty of keepers who use a single male & produce every season.
There is plenty of recorded information around also to verify breedings with single males. Many years ago it was believed to be impossible without the aid of excess males, but I would like to believe that we have come along way since then.

Have you bred BHP yourself Ad?
or are you quoting & passing on "OLD HABIT" advice that you have heard or read ?

 

[BROWNS]

have to disagree also,my male mated like a champion but unfortunately no eggs from the girl but i have a god feeling she'll breed next season still using 1 male.I've heard and been told it's necessary to have multiple males for breeding by many experienced bhp breeders but also know a few who only use one male and never have i had it suggested to use male combat.My male was in ther in 30 seconds i reckon as soon as i introduced,no other bhp's just one pair.

I believe ad bred bhp's last season successfully which i'm sure was his first time,so no offence meant whatsoever but after only 1 season of breeding it's a bit hit and miss to say in your opinion it's best to combat and have multiple males.If after doing so for a few years trying just one male then more etc,combat and not then that would be an opinion one could make from their own personal experience which i'm sure will differ to to others opinions from seasoned breeders who've experimented with the above.

As i say no offence meant at all but many people i know have bred bhp's this season with just 1 male.

 

[Retic]

Well I feel better now after giving the advice that one male is adequate :lol: Now that isn't to say that 2 males may or may not make breeding easier and less hit and miss.
Ad has most certainly bred BHP's and I have a beautiful female from his first breeding last season to show for it.

 

[NCHERPS]

Munkee,
I think you can take it that although one male may well do the job, two males allowed to combat may well increase your chances of achievement in the first year of breeding.
I agree that if you wish to line breed a specific male you have to remove the other after combating, otherwise you won't have a clue which one got her gravid.
As far as viv size, the larger the better, as combating can get quite heated and the more space the better. Also remove any large or heavy movable objects from the viv when combating, as they can move and push things around, they could quite easily put a water bowl through a glass door if it was at that level.

Good luck with it all.

Neil

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Hi all , just my 2 cents worth etc ,
one male will do the job if he is kept seperate from the female all year round , except for introductions for copulation purposes , , males should be introduced early winter for a few days only , and then once every 2 weeks for 2 days at a time , they useualy copulate imeadiatly if you check them in a few hours , the closer it gets to the time that a female should ovulate , the more often he should be introduced , working on a cycle of a few days in with the females and a few days back in his own cage by the time the females are going to ovulate , males can become bored with female if left together continualy and loose interest in copulating , signs of bordom in males are searching the cage and not spending much time coiled with female etc ,
cheers Roger

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Also ,
females ovulating after a succesful copulation is another matter altogether , single males can copulate supplying the female with fertile sperm but if the female does not ovulate ,
then she will not produce a clutch and the folicals will be reobsorbed , eggs cannot be reobsorbed ,
ovulation is when the female fertilizes the eggs with the males sperm ,
slugs are wrongly formed gestated ova or unfertilized ova ,
cheers Roger

 

[zulu]

re A

A friend used an old single male with a young female and it produced infertile eggs so he says,another this year produced mostly fertile eggs with one male.When i used two males they never looked like combatting and just mated with the female and she had fertile eggs,why use one male if you can use two,they are cheap enough to buy now or borrow a friends for a while to spice things up.

 

[Jungle_Freak]

if the simply breeding technique , i mentioned above worked for me then it can work for others , the condition and age of both parents is an important factor in the succesfull reproduction of any species, as well as the correct husbandry , i recommend anyone hoping to breed there pythons read or purchase the book
by Richard A Ross and Gerald Marzec ,
the Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas ,
its a excellant book ,
must go now ,
cheers Roger