about these caramel flavoured childreni

[fishead]

Howdy, I've only heard a little and seen a few pictures of the caramel mutation childreni and they've got my interest. Can anyone tell me the history of these things and maybe post a pic or two?
Anybody expecting any younguns this year of the genuine item? If so I'd like a couple of pairs.
Bye, Steve.

 

[Dicco]

Craig Latta breeds them, expansa1 from this site.

 

[expansa1]

Howdy, I've only heard a little and seen a few pictures of the caramel mutation childreni and they've got my interest. Can anyone tell me the history of these things and maybe post a pic or two?
Anybody expecting any younguns this year of the genuine item? If so I'd like a couple of pairs.
Bye, Steve.

Hi Steve, We first bred a few of these back in 1999 and were the first to do so. We sent a letter to some friends of ours in the USA (Dave and Tracey Barker of VPI Pythons) and asked them for their opinion on the type of colour morph, and being the largest breeders of pythons in the world, were able to tell us if they had seen it anywhere else before. They hadn't. The original Caramels came from three Mt Isa specimens. All three happened to be normal looking hets for the Caramel colour.

Regards,

Craig

 

[fishead]

Cheers Craig, very interesting stuff. Are their eyes a normal colour?
Please see my pm.
Regards, Steve.

 

[expansa1]

Cheers Craig, very interesting stuff. Are their eyes a normal colour?
Please see my pm.
Regards, Steve.

Yes their eyes are completely normal!

Rgds,
Craig

 

[BROWNS]

I had always thought this line were t+ albinos which Trueblue mentioned in another thread these guys aren't.I know seeing a dark patternless snake like the one posted recently with one the same as pictured above to be albino which most people associate with white and red/pink eyes etc,but t+ albinos from what i've looked into a little express darker pigments etc and that would relate to the eyes having normal colour.

Expansa1,are these now proven and definitely tyrosinaise positive as described by the Barkers in your post?I'm sure you've proved these to be recessive but are they in fact a form of albino?...cheers

 

[zulu]

re about

I had one from longtom that was that same light color but had no pattern at all,ile have to get dave to give me the rundown on them they just look like high quality light childreni i dont understand the tyronese stuff.Yeh i thought it referred to a mountain range in spain somewhere

 

[expansa1]

I had always thought this line were t+ albinos which Trueblue mentioned in another thread these guys aren't.I know seeing a dark patternless snake like the one posted recently with one the same as pictured above to be albino which most people associate with white and red/pink eyes etc,but t+ albinos from what i've looked into a little express darker pigments etc and that would relate to the eyes having normal colour.

Expansa1,are these now proven and definitely tyrosinaise positive as described by the Barkers in your post?I'm sure you've proved these to be recessive but are they in fact a form of albino?...cheers

Yes Browns the Caramel's are a Tyrosinase + Albino. The darker snake in the photo did have blotches (patterning) but it was just going through a shed and the patterning was hard to see!

TrueBlue may be talking about different coloured snakes that looked similar to our Caramel's.

I know of 3 large snake breeders that were calling theirs Caramel but individuals just had lighter background colouring. One breeder that called his 'Caramel' actually should have called them 'Coffee' because they were as dark as coffee.

I haven't seen the thread that TrueBlue's comments on Caramel's were on so I can't really comment.

Regards,

Expansa1

 

[BROWNS]

Here's the thread etc expansa,i had always believed that yours were t+...

http://www.aussiepythons.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=206864#206864

Just the comments on these childreni...cheers
BROWNS wrote'

WOW!!! I really like the very dark one and what's interesting is they are what looks like 2 different versions of tyrosinaise positive albinos,heaps and heaps of future potential ther.

Trueblue wrote"
[/quote]Not albinos Browns, the dark one looks to be the unmarked childrens which are quite common around Mt Isa, they look like mini olives, it looks like its about to drop its skin as well. The other is what are refered to as caramel childrens, have got some here to see when you finally get here.
Both forms are very nice for childrens as IMO childrens tend to be the blandest out of the group.

And thanks very much for verifying they are a form of albino...cheers

 

[zulu]

re about

Had me googling expansa,yep as one would expect dave Barkers right ,its a form of albinism,ok now we soughted that out whats the price they are very nice :lol:

 

[kahn_10]

hey guys!!! who would have some of these available this season they look really interesting!!! and how much would they cost????
cheers kahn

 

[expansa1]

re about

Had me googling expansa,yep as one would expect dave Barkers right ,its a form of albinism,ok now we soughted that out whats the price they are very nice :lol:

Hi Zulu,
Caramels go for $500 each and guaranteed hets go for $350.

Expansa1

 

[olivehydra]

re about

Had me googling expansa,yep as one would expect dave Barkers right ,its a form of albinism,ok now we soughted that out whats the price they are very nice :lol:

Hi Zulu,
Caramels go for $500 each and guaranteed hets go for $350.

Expansa1

Or if you're lucky, you could get a het for as little as $40 and a postage stamp :wink:

 

[Morelia_Hunter]

Browns can you please explain Tyrosinase + to me as I am unsure of how you get to that conclusion?

 

[zulu]

re about

Expansa 1,if you have any more pics of these childreni it would be most appreciated. Cheers colin.

 

[BROWNS]

Browns can you please explain Tyrosinase + to me as I am unsure of how you get to that conclusion?

I have known of this line for a while and i didn't come to the conclusion ,as you can see in expansas post with Dave Barkers email maybe he's the man to ask how he came to the conclusion???

 

[expansa1]

re about

Expansa 1,if you have any more pics of these childreni it would be most appreciated. Cheers colin.

Hi Colin, here are a few more!

Regards,
Craig
Expansa1

 

[beknluke]

Oh they're just magnificent I reckon! For some reason the caramels just make me go ga-ga! lol
One day..... *sigh*
Also Expansa - would something like the ' Tyrosinase + ' gene show up in blood work?
Oh they're GORGEOUS!!! *sigh*
Congrats again Craig
Bex

 

[expansa1]

Oh they're just magnificent I reckon! For some reason the caramels just make me go ga-ga! lol
One day..... *sigh*
Also Expansa - would something like the ' Tyrosinase + ' gene show up in blood work?
Oh they're GORGEOUS!!! *sigh*
Congrats again Craig
Bex

Hi Bex,
My understanding of reptile genetics is that you have to know the particular markers in DNA and considering that so little work on this subject has been done, it is unlikey that anyone would know what to look for to determine that it was t+ albinism in a sample of blood.

regards,
Craig
Expansa1

 

[flavirufus]

Hi Craig,
Congrats on getting this beautiful morph of childreni well established. Your understanding of the need to develop particular markers for genetic analysis is correct. However, Tyrosinase is simply a chemical that is used to produce melanin, rather than being a gene and part of the genetic make-up as such. There are relatively simple tests available for determining whether an albino mammal is tyrosinase positive or negative, but I can't remember how easy it is to do in snakes. I'd have to do some research, but I'm pretty sure its possible.
Matt