BHPs and Womas

[PhilK]

Hey all, correct me if I'm wrong - but BHPs and Woma's don't have heat-sensing pits do they?

My question is why not? And also, do they just compensate with their tongue and sight?

 

[The Devil]

You are right, bhp's and woma's do not have heat sensing pits.
In the wild something like 90% of their diet is snakes and lizards.
Both are cold blooded so heat pits would be a waste.

 

[PhilK]

Oh, OK. So they obviously just use their tongues? Reptiles in the sun would be warm?

 

[swampie]

Pilbara pythons has a theory that they do have a heat pit located under the top jaw. I tend to agree with him after observing the behavior of my own bhp's, they always seem to check you out with their heads tilted back like they are looking at you with their mouths.

 

[serpenttongue]

Yeah, i THINK it was proven a while back that BHP's do have a heat pit. I THINK i also read that they have a venom gland which is not in use!(no fangs)

Please correct me if i'm wrong, i dont want to look a fool!

 

[junglepython2]

Oh, OK. So they obviously just use their tongues? Reptiles in the sun would be warm?

Reptiles in the sun would be warm but they wouldn't be all that much warmer then their surrounds so heat pits would have trouble distinguishing between the too.

 

[NCHERPS]

Yeah, i THINK it was proven a while back that BHP's do have a heat pit. I THINK i also read that they have a venom gland which is not in use!(no fangs)

Please correct me if i'm wrong, i dont want to look a fool!

Hey ST,

I am not sure if it has been proven in regards the Heat pit on the BHP, but it was being spoken about a while back now, I think it might be a case of the jury being out at the moment.
Does anyone know of any scientific research to suggest that they do infact have a heat pit.

I believe that it was 'Dr Brian G Frye' that was doing some research on the BHP's and venom glands, however I don't think anything has been officially published as of yet, so until it has and has been reviewed by others in the scientific community, we shall just have to wonder.

I hope both things turn out to be true, how cool would it be to have found out these things about these awesome snakes!

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I have suggested for several years now that this rostral pit needs to be looked at to establish if it is indeed heat sensing pit as I have always suspected. Up until only last week, have I had one single scientist interested in doing this work? Thankfully we now have Dr Stephen Donnellan considering taking this investigation on.

Cheers Dave

 

[Sdaji]

This Woma pictures seems relevant here... I'll get another one up which is also relevant in this context.

(for the record, no, the Woma isn't mine)

 

[Sdaji]

Sorry about not having a better picture, but I've noticed that Death Adders have a similar 'pit', which suggests to me that such a structure likely has a non thermoreceptive function. It doesn't seem to be a good place to have a thermoreceptive pit and my guess is that the structure in Aspidites isn't thermoreceptive, but I won't make any confident hyotheses.

 

[Oxyuranus microlepid]

Oh, OK. So they obviously just use their tongues? Reptiles in the sun would be warm?

but so would everything else around them

 

[Oxyuranus microlepid]

I believe that it was 'Dr Brian G Frye' that was doing some research on the BHP's and venom glands, however I don't think anything has been officially published as of yet, so until it has and has been reviewed by others in the scientific community, we shall just have to wonder.

do we think the venom would be leaning towards inland taipan or brown tree snake/night tiger?

 

[NCHERPS]

do we think the venom would be leaning towards inland taipan or brown tree snake/night tiger?

I haven't got the answer to that question mate, maybe try contacting Dr Fry at http://www.venomdoc.com/

Cheers Neil

 

[pugsly]

Doesnt look like a heat pit though.. I would have thought the design of the front of there heads including that weird shape under the top jaw would be solely for burrowing, as Womas BHP's and certainly Death Adders seem to love it under neath things..

Just a thought

 

[serpenttongue]

Yeah Pugsly, thats what i think. Their snout looks like a shovel for digging.

 

[mrmikk]

Both are cold blooded so heat pits would be a waste.

So, snakes with heat pits are not cold blooded??? That is a ridiculous argument, heat pits are not relevant to whether a snake is cold blooded or not. Show me a snake that is NOT cold blooded.

 

[junglepython2]

So, snakes with heat pits are not cold blooded??? That is a ridiculous argument, heat pits are not relevant to whether a snake is cold blooded or not. Show me a snake that is NOT cold blooded.

I think he meant both their main prey items being other snakes and lizards are cold blooded so heat pits would be of little use in detecting them.

 

[mrmikk]

I think he meant both their main prey items being other snakes and lizards are cold blooded so heat pits would be of little use in detecting them.

Makes no difference, look at a snake or lizard through an infrared camera, they give off heat, in fact ANY living organism gives off heat, if you want to get down to basic bio-chemistry the heat is a by-product of kinetic energy.

Therefore, the argument against BHPs & Womas not having heat pits on that basis is flawed.

 

[cement]

Sorry about not having a better picture, but I've noticed that Death Adders have a similar 'pit', which suggests to me that such a structure likely has a non thermoreceptive function. It doesn't seem to be a good place to have a thermoreceptive pit and my guess is that the structure in Aspidites isn't thermoreceptive, but I won't make any confident hyotheses.

Just a thought, but if BHps have a black head for going down burrows for prey, it seems like a good place to have a pit, right up in front.
Also, do they actually dig like a shovel? Mine burrow through soft or moveable material but i am yet to see them dig their own tunnel or hole. i.e they will push down and get under grass roots and tunnel through mulch etc, but not the dirt below.
As you say though, if they were diggers then it would just fill up with dirt and become compacted.

 

[Nagraj]

Makes no difference, look at a snake or lizard through an infrared camera, they give off heat, in fact ANY living organism gives off heat, if you want to get down to basic bio-chemistry the heat is a by-product of kinetic energy.

Poikilothermic animals are actually at or very nearly at the temperature of the surrounding environment and heat sensing pits would probably not be sensitive enough at any meaningful distance to be an advantage.

Kinetic energy is related to movement and doesn't have any relevance in a still poikilotherm.