Colubrids?

[absinthe_616]

okay so, im trying to understand the differences in the snake famillies. and so far, my understanding is as goes:

pythons:......non-venomous, constricting snakes
elapids:......small, hollow unmovable front fangs, all highly venomous
boas:..........large bodied, differs from python mostly due to lack of teeth on the premaxilla, and most produce live young
vipers:........large hinged fangs that fold back against the roof of mouth, vemon is proteolytic
blind:.........small, non venomous, nocturnal, scales cover their eyes
file:............aquatic, fangless, venomless, bear live young


and then theres colubrids... and their deffinition

While most colubrids are non-venomous (or have venom that isn't known to be harmful to humans) and are mostly harmless, a few groups, such as genus Boiga, can produce medically significant bites, while the boomslang and the twig snakes have caused human fatalities.[1]
Some colubrids are described as opisthoglyphous, meaning that they have elongated, grooved teeth, located in the back of the upper jaw. These are unlike those of vipers and elapids that are located in the front.

kind of leaves me a little less than a little satisfied. it seems theyve just kind of gone "....aaaaand the rest can be grouped as colubrids." the only real significant thing i can find about them is it says that colubrids fangs are at back of mouth?

can anyone give me a better descripton of this family, or is that it :/

 

[absinthe_616]

is everyone dead tonight?

 

[Bax155]

not all elapids are highly venomous!

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day absinthe,

Firstly, go and buy yourself a copy of Rick Shines book "Australian Snakes - A Natural History". It's very cheap considering the information it contains and it is written in a style that even the newest herper will understand.

Secondly - you have basically summed up Colubrids correctly. The best way I can explain it is that it is a "We'll deal with all of this stuff next week" pile. There are several sub-families of Colubrids and no doubt these will be elevated to full family status with more research.

Cheers

 

[absinthe_616]

haaahah thanks for that Jonno, ill definitely check out that book! lazy researchers then again, im not one so i cant get my little whip cracking at them, no doubt its very hard to catagorize animals.

and bax, i thought they were all pretty toxic, by highly venomous, i didnt necessarily mean fatal, just, you'd obviously get really sick and need medical attention, right? no need for exclamation marks, im here to learn.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day absinthe,

The majority of Australian elapids are considered totally harmless. Only about a quarter are potentially fatal to humans.

 

[absinthe_616]

G'day absinthe,

The majority of Australian elapids are considered totally harmless. Only about a quarter are potentially fatal to humans.

:O this is news!

ive been lied to x) never trust websites! *runs off to get books*

 

[Bax155]

G'day absinthe,

The majority of Australian elapids are considered totally harmless. Only about a quarter are potentially fatal to humans.

Thanx for explaining it for me Jonno!!

 

[Sturdy]

is everyone dead tonight?

A bite from a boiga irregularis has put someone in hospital in the past 48 hours...

Cheers
Sturdy

 

[Sturdy]

G'day absinthe,

The majority of Australian elapids are considered totally harmless. Only about a quarter are potentially fatal to humans.

Curious jonno, what are you basing this statement on.

Nobody knows how their body is going to react until they have been given a wet bite.

Cheers
Sturdy

 

[Jonno from ERD]

You've got to differentiate between people having an acute allergic reaction and the actual potential lethality of the venom. People can have an allergic reaction to a peanut, it doesn't mean that it possesses harmful venom.

 

[Sturdy]

You've got to differentiate between people having an acute allergic reaction and the actual potential lethality of the venom. People can have an allergic reaction to a peanut, it doesn't mean that it possesses harmful venom.

True, but how many people know they are allergic to venom before they get a bite.
Or
People who have developed a allergic reaction after being bitten in the past.

Cheers
Sturdy.

 

[gunny]

I thought vipers had hollow fangs and elapids had a groove running down the back of them?

 

[Jonno from ERD]

True, but how many people know they are allergic to venom before they get a bite.
Or
People who have developed a allergic reaction after being bitten in the past.

Cheers
Sturdy.

I agree, but I was talking about the potential lethality with regards to the toxicity of elapids, nothing to do with allergic reactions.

 

[ShadowDragon]

Looking at it literally, anything has the potential to be fatal. All it takes is the right combination of factors. A grape could be fatal if you choke on it. A BTS could be fatal if you are allergic to it, or if you have some other pre-existing condition which affects your body's ability to handle the stress put on it by a bite. The term potentially fatal is dangerously misleading to people who don't know much about snakes, or the way in which their bodies can be affected by venom. It leads them to think that anything else will probably be okay for them to touch as they're not considered dangerous. No one can truly say they know exactly how much a bite will harm them as there are far too many aggravating factors to consider, someone who has tolerated a bite in the past from a particular species may drop dead from it the next time.

 

[Waterrat]

A bite from a boiga irregularis has put someone in hospital in the past 48 hours...

Cheers
Sturdy

This may be true, on the other hand, when I young (and stupid) I used to pick up BTS off the road and got bitten no less that 20 times with absolutely no reaction whatsoever. Some of the snakes were 5' and good biters too.
By the way, I don't do it any more.

As Jonno said, the Colubrids are a complex group and any serious taxonomic work would have to be done on the entire group, not just the Australian species. Colubrids are relatively new arrivals on this continent and are poorly represented here, compared with their enormous diversity in Asia.

 

[moosenoose]

I thought vipers had hollow fangs and elapids had a groove running down the back of them?

I'm not sure about Adders (I thought they might be different?), but all of our other elapids have grooved fangs, not hollow. You are correct


I thought this bit of literature (below) would have been more accurate??? Especially coming from the Australian Muesum website. Anyone care to colaborate?

Among Australian snakes, hollow fangs occur in all of our terrestrial venomous species and in the sea snakes, represented in the scanning electron micrographs shown here by the Red Bellied Black Snake. Grooved fangs occur only in the Brown Tree Snake Boiga irregularis and in a group of freshwater snakes in northern Australia.

- Fangs of deadly venomous snakes - Australian Museum

 

[JasonL]

On snake fangs

 

[moosenoose]

Very interesting JasonL, and thanks.

After being told/and read many, many times that Australian elapids have grooved fangs and not hollow fangs, I read this here and it states that this info is all crap! :lol: ...so now, just so I have this correct, Australian elapids don't have grooved fangs, they have hollow enclosed fangs! FINALLY!!!! ....so many articles out there and so-called expert info...and it's all "word-of-mouth" wrong!

 

[JasonL]

This may be true, on the other hand, when I young (and stupid) I used to pick up BTS off the road and got bitten no less that 20 times with absolutely no reaction whatsoever. Some of the snakes were 5' and good biters too.
By the way, I don't do it any more.

Did you let them chew on you, often BTS will give you a "get lost bite" a quick nip, but they need to have a good chew to deliver any venom. I don't think BTS use venom to ward off animals / humans usually, but use it to stop prey they are trying to eat.
Anyone here been envenomated by a BTS?