DECCW enclosure restrictions

[chase77]

After reading a few posts about these laws that they are proposing, i started to get a little concerned. I attempted to find more info on the web and came up with nothing. So I decided to ring the licensing people at DECCW (first point of contact) to try to get an answer. The guy took my number and said he would pass it on the the bloke in charge of these new rules, also saying that the guy would ring me back. Now whether he does or not is a different story.
I also sent off an email to the same mob as well for good measure. Now whether i get answers or not i dont know, but maybe if more people start calling up and sending emails we might get a response.
The phone number for DECCW was 95856406. And the email was sent to [email protected]

Hopefully I'm wasting my time and the restrictions aren't that bad, but with government agencies you never know.

Chase.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

A number of people have copies of the new code, which can only be obtained by lodging a Freedom of Info application with DECCW. The Department has refused all requests to make the document public, despite the promise of a 'transparent' process at the beginnings of discussions with keepers.

The process has been largely driven by the Department of Industry & Investment, which has insisted that the Code be enforced in law, rather than making recommendations. Information obtained, once again via FOI, about the submission DII made to DECCW clearly indicates who is in the jockey seat. When the Code comes into law, keepers will have 6 months to comply with the mandated requirements, but the sting in the tail is that 'within' 5 years, all enclosures must match the sizes stipulated by DII requirements for exhibitied animals. As I understand it, these are not yet formulated, but there is pressure on DECCW to increase enclosure sizes from those currently in the Code.

So if your enclosures don't measure up now, and you invest in new cages to comply with the current Code, you may just have to do it all over again 'within' 5 years. The term 'within' is entirely unsatisfactory in this context - it could mean 1 year or as many as 5.

Good luck with your enquiry.

Jamie.

 

[Waterrat]

"Requirements for exhibited animals". Hmmm, I wonder if that would also apply to "off limits" enclosures in Zoos and Animal Parks. I have been behind the scenes in many establishments and what I have seen was less specious than what many private keepers house their reptiles in.

 

[pepsi111]

hey guys i just kinda read what you just said but i didn't really get it
douse this only apply to zoo's and pet shops with reptiles or is that all of us
also if it applies to all of us could you like send me the current code =]

 

[pythons73]

I cant understand why they CANT make this public,WE are reptile keepers so dont we deserve to no whats going on with these regulations...There was a Thread about this start of year and the sizes were a joke,to keep a Olive-Scrub you need a bedroom..I wonder how many people just cant upgrade the cage sizes to make DECCW happy..

 

[Pythoninfinite]

The problem with the Code document is that it runs to 38 pages (that's a lot of stuff for an inspector to have to go through when he visits to ensure your compliance with the Code) and so is too big to scan and distribute electronically. As I understand it, material obtained under FOI legislationcan be freely distributed as needed, but of course DECCW would be the obvious source to put it on their website for keepers to examine. Numerous representations have been made to have it made public, but they even refused to voluntarily make it available to the members of the Expert Advisory Group, hence the FOI application.

 

[chase77]

Just got this back in good time which was pleasantly surprising.

Thank you for your interest in the Code of Practice for the Private Keeping of Reptiles. I have provided a brief timeline of our consultation on the Code for your information:

• Early 2008 – animal welfare emerged as the single most important issue to stakeholders during consultation on potential changes to the reptile trade policy
• Mid 2008 – DECCW decided to develop a Code of Practice for reptile keepers to address these welfare concerns
• Late 2008 – DECCW met with representatives of the major herpetological societies (advisory group) and produced a framework for a Code
• Early 2009 – DECCW produced a draft Code based on the framework and distributed it to the advisory group for comment
• Mid 2009 – DECCW met with the advisory group on four occasions to fine-tune the draft Code
• Late 2009 – the draft Code was released for public consultation; DECCW publicised the Code at herpetological society meetings, through web-based forums and via email
• Early 2010 – the Code was revised based on feedback received from keepers, veterinarians, academics, government agencies and animal welfare groups
• Mid 2010 – the Code was sent to the Animal Welfare Advisory Council (Industry and Investment NSW) for review
• Late 2010 – the Code has been endorsed by AWAC and an implementation plan is currently being prepared

A previous version of the Code was released following a freedom of information request. All the major herpetology societies have this version and are free to distribute it as they see fit. I have pasted in a link to these societies.

DECC | Herpetological societies in NSW

I notice you have started a thread on this topic on APS. Please feel free to post this email on the thread.

so i suppose i contact one of the herp societies and find out something that could easily be posted somewhere or put on a website.

Chase.

 

[Bryce]

Where can we find the sizes?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Ask DECCW to put the code onto their website.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Dot point 5.

The unanimous opinion of the Expert Advisory Group (comprising around 10 of the most experienced herp people in NSW, and with collective experience of well over 200 years) was, while in principle, there was no objection to a Code of Practice for the welfare of captive reptiles, the Code should make recommendations only, and with regard to enclosure sizes, these should NOT be mandated in law, due to the huge number of varying needs of captive reptiles.

The Department of Industry and Investment, however, insisted that enforceability was a significant component of the Code, with the result that DECCW has complied with their requirements.

 

[Kurto]

*cough* this is bull **** *cough*

So is the DECC going to give me a rebate on the house extensions I'm going to have to do to allow for the extra cage space?

 

[pythons73]

LOL Kurto,thats what im talking about...Unfortunately im only in a 4bedroom place,so that means i can keep around 4-6 snakes according to the new regulations....You need a bedroom to house a Olive-Scrub...

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I should point out that, while the response from DECCW to chase77's request for information, looks comprehensive in its coverage of the development of the Code, and would seem to indicate that there was a comprehensive canvassing of keeper and other professional opinion (dot point 7), the copy of the Code obtained under FOI, along with other documents, including correspondence from DII, indicates that the intent of the Code was a foregone conclusion.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

LOL Kurto,thats what im talking about...Unfortunately im only in a 4bedroom place,so that means i can keep around 4-6 snakes according to the new regulations....You need a bedroom to house a Olive-Scrub...

It's not quite that bad Mark! The problem faced by the EAG has been one of transparency of process. The group spent a huge amount of time meeting to discuss the Code, in good faith, and then meeting with reps from DECCW, and presuming that it was a primary participant in the process. Then the blinds came down... DECCW became totaly unresponsive to requests for info, they would not provide a copy of the Code despite numerous requests. It was apparent that the input from the EAG did not fit with the outcome DECCW had sought from the outset.

 

[Kurto]

So is this a big push from DECCW for the commercial side of the hobby? What are the odds that pet shops will be allowed reptile sales after the implementation. Legally being able to properly advertise unwanted offspring would be a plus for me...

 

[bensen]

wouldn't it be nice to have a National Reptile Keepers Association NOW

 

[ozziepythons]

Many reptile breeders in NSW have success with tub and rack systems, so are tubs going to be outlawed as suitable housing when the code is enforced?

 

[girdheinz]

I'll put it up shortly, I have scanned it onto about 4 PDF's so i hope i get them in order. Unfortunately the files are far too massive for download allowances. I will have to email them to the administrator.

Gird

 

[chase77]

I'll put it up shortly, I have scanned it onto about 4 PDF's so i hope i get them in order. Unfortunately the files are far too massive for download allowances. I will have to email them to the administrator.

Gird

Thanks Gird.

Chase

 

[PythonRob]

Have people forgotten what enclosure guidlines are for ???? - It is for the Care of Reptiles in captivity.

You should never keep large pythons like Olive or Scrub pythons in a small enlosure (How would you like to live in room the size of your bathroom for your whole life).

Here are a couple of old downloads, may cause some contraversary but I have seen some keepers keep reptiles in cramped & aweful conditions and I personally support proper welfare standards for reptile keepers. Most may forget how many years it took to get licensing approved by DECC / NPWS and if you are going to keep reptiles then it should be done responsibly. PythonRob

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/re...ftReptiles.pdf
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au//r...ileComment.pdf