Dieing Hatchlings :(

[00Scales00]

Dying Hatchlings

Hi guys, my julatten eggs hatched on the 28th dec (53 days in), I checked on them and noticed so much condensation built up that the 3 eggs on the very bottom of the clutch were about 1cm in water, it must have happened in the last couple of days as i always checked on them. Anyways, I saw that two eggs on top had pipped so i went ahead and snipped the rest, they started hatching, by the next 2 days they were all out, except 1 on the bottom, he died in the egg, fully developed though. I put all the hatchy's into a container for a few hrs whilst i set up their tubs, one hatchy had died during that time. Now, 3 days later, after being set in their tubs a while, another one has died. My concern is the amount of moisture exposed to the eggs on the bottom in the last days before hatching, the eggs were swelled, is this the cause of my babies dying after hatching? Here is a pic of the one that died today, looking very swollen or is it just a full belly from the yolk? Any suggestions? Feeling frustrated here

Cheers!
Crystal

 

[pythonmum]

I have had one hatchling in 4 clutches with a swollen belly, but it was just yolk and not as pronounced as yours. The constriction above the swelling is odd and would worry me. The excess water will certainly have reduced the hatchlings' ability to absorb oxygen and leading to the death in egg.However, after pipping this should not be such an issue. I am afraid I can't offer much advice. Some of the very experienced people may have an answer, but it is often a case of 'stuff happens'.

 

[00Scales00]

That's what i figured, if they made it out of the egg and even survived for a few days, what else could it be.. I am afraid of more dying, although they look healthy and alert, but i will keep an eye on them. Not much you can do once they are out hey. Thanks

 

[Wild~Touch]

Have with a close look (with a magnifying glass) at the umbilical slit

Many years ago we lost an entire clutch of spotted pythons to drosphilia fly maggots .......this could be the reason for the swollen section

Our perfectly formed live babies seemed to die for no reason and it was heartbreaking

 

[OldestMagician]

Keep us updated with what happens to the rest of the clutch.
Sorry I can't offer any advice

 

[00Scales00]

Ok Wild Touch. I will have a look at the others tomorrow. I have already discarded the dead Hatchy's.

Thanks Magician, I will post an update in a few days . Fingers crossed

 

[cement]

For the eggs to be sitting in 1 cm of water, you have obviously overfilled the water. Condensation won't generate water. If anything water will migrate up onto the lid or to the cooler spots but that lessens the water in the bottom!
I would say that you have made an incubation mistake, by having the eggs sitting in water.
The full tummy is the yolk. The hatchlings should be allowed to stay in the egg after they cut there way out for as long as they like, sometimes up to a few days. This allows them to fully absorb the yolk and they hatch out as if they have had a feed.
Without seeing your methods in person I can't really comment on whats happened after hatching because it could be due to many factors, but if they didn't incubate properly, then its highly likely that they didn't form properly, causing death later.

 

[reptalica]

[MENTION=36717]Crysy[/MENTION] is there any chance you could post some pics of your set up so that we can get a better insight as to what may or may not have happened.

Cheers.

 

[00Scales00]

[MENTION=3394]reptalica[/MENTION]. Yes I can. I will take pics of my rack later. Lol
[MENTION=4778]cement[/MENTION]. I used the over water method. I put some vermiculite under the crate the eggs were sitting on. Only a little water was added to dampen the vermiculite. I didn't add any more as the humidity was high enough. It's from condensation. It was dripping off the lid. That's all I can think of cos I'm positive I did not add that much water in the egg container, Also, I propped up one corner of the egg container so any condensation would roll away from the eggs. Thus, the water did pool up on one side of the container. But there still shouldn't be that much water right?
And yes the they all had full tummy's after hatching. Some bigger than others. Anyways, to update on their condition.. No more Hatchy's have died since I posted this thread so that's a good thing. They should be coming into shed very soon. I am still determined to find the cause of death on the others, any suggestions is appreciated.

Crys

 

[cement]

@reptalica. Yes I can. I will take pics of my rack later. Lol
@cement. I used the over water method. I put some vermiculite under the crate the eggs were sitting on. Only a little water was added to dampen the vermiculite. I didn't add any more as the humidity was high enough. It's from condensation. It was dripping off the lid. That's all I can think of cos I'm positive I did not add that much water in the egg container, Also, I propped up one corner of the egg container so any condensation would roll away from the eggs. Thus, the water did pool up on one side of the container. But there still shouldn't be that much water right?
And yes the they all had full tummy's after hatching. Some bigger than others. Anyways, to update on their condition.. No more Hatchy's have died since I posted this thread so that's a good thing. They should be coming into shed very soon. I am still determined to find the cause of death on the others, any suggestions is appreciated.

Crys

Is this your first go at incubation?
Cause of death will never be determined here on this forum.
Wet eggs die. Proper incubation has dry eggs in an elevated humid environment.
Was there mould present?
Did adding the vermiculite raise the level of water? Like I said... in a closed environment like an egg tub, the only way water increases in volume, is if it is added. So if your eggs are sitting in water then the water level is wrong from the get go.
It is important to get a grasp on how incubation works, with a well built incubator you will not need to raise a corner of the tub to drain condensation. If you have to do this then I am suggesting (with all due respect) that you don't understand incubation and as a result have lost some snakes.
My suggestion to you is forget about why they died (i am pretty sure it was due to the incubator not working properly), and now set the incubator up and tweak it so that you don't get condensation on the lid, for next time.

 

[00Scales00]

Is this your first go at incubation?
Cause of death will never be determined here on this forum.
Wet eggs die. Proper incubation has dry eggs in an elevated humid environment.
Was there mould present?
Did adding the vermiculite raise the level of water? Like I said... in a closed environment like an egg tub, the only way water increases in volume, is if it is added. So if your eggs are sitting in water then the water level is wrong from the get go.
It is important to get a grasp on how incubation works, with a well built incubator you will not need to raise a corner of the tub to drain condensation. If you have to do this then I am suggesting (with all due respect) that you don't understand incubation and as a result have lost some snakes.
My suggestion to you is forget about why they died (i am pretty sure it was due to the incubator not working properly), and now set the incubator up and tweak it so that you don't get condensation on the lid, for next time.

This is is my first time trying the over water method. Not my first time incubating..
How can the water level be wrong if it was just only enough to moisten the vermiculite? It's not like I poured a big cup of water in with it, That's what I don't understand...you are telling me condensation can't be built up, it can though because every time you open the lid more cool air gets in and mixes with warm air which creates condensation. (Think I just answered my own question). [MENTION=4778]cement[/MENTION].. I am suggesting (with all due respect) that you don't understand basic science.
The issue seems to be not how much water I put in the tub.. It's the way it was sealed and ventilated ( I opened it too much). I didn't go into this line of work half assed and ignorant. Thank you very much.
and FYI.. Raising a corner of the tub seems to be very common, perhaps not politically correct or whatever but it helps for some people.
P.S. A few spots of mould formed on 3 bottom eggs (the ones that swelled)

Thank you for giving me ideas as to what may have caused problems. And allowing me to see what I may have done wrong.

Cheers

 

[cement]

LOl! Basic science!! Typical know it all response. You asked for suggestions to why your hatchlings died. It is because of your incubator and your methods.

How can the water level be right if the eggs are sitting in 1 cm of water?

I have used the water method for years and never have problems, because I understand how it works, BUT if your incubator isn't set up properly you will....and you did. I never said that condensation can't be built up. I said that water WILL NOT INCREASE IN VOLUME unless you add it. Regardless of how often you open the lid.
Raising a corner of the tub IS NOT NEEDED if the incubator is set up right. Nothing to do with politics or whatever other smart comment you can think of.

But now your saying that that you used moistened vermiculite, where you start out saying you used the water method.

Well Crysy, good luck...

 

[Ai_herper]

Thanks for this informative thread crysy, I've learnt that when incubating to much water increases the chance of death.

 

[00Scales00]

@cement. News flash.. When condensation builds up, that is water volume increasing...

You are welcome Ai_herper

 

[Rlpreston]

@cement. News flash.. When condensation builds up, that is water volume increasing...

You are welcome Ai_herper

Do you mean to tell me that water is just materialising from nothing? :/


This might help....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[cement]

I started on this thread to help you understand that your methods are wrong causing death to your snakes, which you seemed so concerned about.
But all I get is, know it all smart reply.Was going to help you, now I'm not. Figure it out for yourself.

This is prime example why experienced people don't offer advice.


@cement. News flash.. When condensation builds up, that is water volume increasing...

Well, I guess you better go back to basic science class.

 

[00Scales00]

Condensation is formed inside the tub when air is exchanged, BECAUSE there is a difference in temperature AND there is water vapor in the air. Just because you can't physically see the water doesn't mean it's not there in gas form.

 

[cement]

Ok then.
Why did your snakes die?
Like I said.....good luck einstein .

 

[DarwinBrianT]

There is an easy way to test this.... What happen when everyone else does it this way? Does the water build up or does it get less and less??

 

[animal805]

This forum is always so informative and helpful, are we not sharing the same passion?