Dobermans?

[amy5189]

I am going to agree with Craig here. Dogs are meant to have tails. Thats why they have them. I have heard some people going on about their rotti's that were "Naturally born without tails" this is a crock of *$#&*#$. All dogs (minus stumpy cattles) are born with tails, for balance etc. It is connected to their spine so I'm thinking that perhaps it maybe of some sort of importance to them.
To me it is no difference to cropping ears. Unnatural, cruel, all for show.
My dogs whack their tails on things wagging, get tails stood on, tails squished in doors (not on purpose I swear!!). It is hard to harm a tail.
So please think seriously about this, and decide whether or not you want to go through with illegal animal cruelty, or have a happy and NATURAL dog.

 

[emmjay23]

I have a red dobe. love her to bits
She was abandoned and the neighbor took her in -realised she was too much work with their other dog and passed her onto us. She was a bit skiddish at first -I think the original owner miss-treated her, but shes the most intelligent, human acting dog!
Because she was already 6 months when we got her she was too big and energetic to put with children unsupervised (played rough and got carried away) but she is learning not to jump and has calmed down heaps. Shes very protective of her family and yard.
She runs like the wind so make sure you have a large area (like an oval away from a road) to let them run. If you manage to find a way to wear them out let me know!
anyway check out my album to see a photo of her (when we 1st got her) with tail and ears in-tact and no problems at all with her tail.

There are guys working next door that told me she looks mean when I'm not home good dog hehe

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

I have heard some people going on about their rotti's that were "Naturally born without tails" this is a crock of *$#&*#$. All dogs (minus stumpy cattles) are born with tails

it isn't a crock! :shock:

there is such a thing as naturally born bobtail rottweilers.
http://www.rottweilers.net.au/index.html

but personally I would never own or breed the bobtail line.

 

[Noongato]

Im against docking tails and cropping ears too, but i do love the stereotype dobermann look. Mostly the upright ears thing. Be good if they could breed a line of dobermanns with natural upright ears.
Since you can train staffies etc ears to stand as pups, does that idea apply to all dogs or just some breeds? Be cool to train a doby's ears to stand on their own.

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

yes, you can tape the ears but its not needed. its only cosmetic to make them look more apealing to certain people. the ear set for the dobermann is Small, neat, set high on head. Normally dropped, but may be erect.
personally I like them natural.

 

[Lovemydragons]

oh, and not all breed standards change with passing fads. take the rottweiler standard for instance. hasn't changed since it was created back in 1907, except in 1998 when the tail set changed from docked to natural.

Are you talking about show standards? Or peoples choice of standard?

Cos what happened to cropping ears!! There is a guy at my obedience school that has a rotti with these tiny cropped ears (so they stand up). They look awful and not to say probably painful at some stage to the poor dog! I doubt very much the dog was born like that! I'm guessing he's not the only one who has had this done.

 

[Red-Ink]

There are that many breeds out there that have different looks and temperments that if you look hard enough you would find the perfect dog breed that would satisfy what you want. I personally think to many people put emphasis on looks first and temperment second. IMO it should be the other way around. There are people that buy border collies or heelers for example cause they like the way they look then complain that it takes to much energy to tire then out or that it keeps wrecking the yard, their a working dog without the work they get bored and destructive. Find a breed of dog that suits your lifestyle and personality then see if all those breeds suit the look your looking for. Thats why i like bulldogs, their happy enough to sit on the couch with me and have a beer without ever needin to much exercise, that's my kind a dog I'm too lazy for the energetic breeds lol.

 

[kakariki]

Dobie tails are nasty things, lol. Just like other breeds that are usually docked, they are long & whippy. And they are much more easily damaged than the wooly or fluffy tails eg Sheps. My boy ( not a Dobe) has the nastiest whippy tail at just the wrong height ( esp for blokes :shock He bashes it on the wall when he get excited and has on one occassion, even hit it so hard he ended up with a large swelling & he couldn't wag it for 3 days! But imo, they still look far better with them. Docking is a barbaric op done unnecessarily for human "cosmetic" reasons...most of the time!
Whitey, I hear what you are saying regarding breed standards but they do change. The Danes are going through it atm. Gone are the large framed, strong looking dogs with neat square heads. Go to a show now & you will see lanky, weak looking dogs with hugely drooping jowls & eyelids! Very sad when you compare these to the "real thing". And Rotties have been affected in a similar way. The Rotties I remember seeing were big, strong dogs but nowdays they are smaller & lack the bulk they once had. ( Perhaps it's just the shows that I go to, I don't know, but I am convinced "line breeding" has a lot to do with it! )

 

[jessb]

Find a breed of dog that suits your lifestyle and personality then see if all those breeds suit the look your looking for. Thats why i like bulldogs, their happy enough to sit on the couch with me and have a beer without ever needin to much exercise, that's my kind a dog I'm too lazy for the energetic breeds lol.

LOL that's why we got a Labrador!!!

 

[moosenoose]

In particular, we have chosen the breed for their great reputation with kids

Perfect dogs :lol: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/qld-news/man-mauled-by-pet-dog-20090420-ac05.html

 

[kakariki]

Perfect dogs :lol: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/qld-news/man-mauled-by-pet-dog-20090420-ac05.html

You gotta ask what the man was doing to the dog to cause it in the first place! Dogs rarely attack without provocation & some people don't treat dogs with the respect they should. It could just as easily be a terrier or a spaniel! Only thing is, when a big dog does attack someone, it makes a big mess!

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

Are you talking about show standards? Or peoples choice of standard?

Cos what happened to cropping ears!! There is a guy at my obedience school that has a rotti with these tiny cropped ears (so they stand up). They look awful and not to say probably painful at some stage to the poor dog! I doubt very much the dog was born like that! I'm guessing he's not the only one who has had this done.

Its not a show standard or peoples personal standards im refering to, its the breed standard and thats the same standard used in shows aswell.
here is an explanation cut out from this site-http://www.vomlowenherzigrottweilers.com/rottweiler-natural-tail.html

cropped ears have never been the FCI ear set and far as im aware they have never been in the AKC standard either. People do it for there own selfish needs, that guy you are talking about will never be allowed to show his rotti with cropped ears.

Whitey, I hear what you are saying regarding breed standards but they do change. The Danes are going through it atm. Gone are the large framed, strong looking dogs with neat square heads. Go to a show now & you will see lanky, weak looking dogs with hugely drooping jowls & eyelids! Very sad when you compare these to the "real thing". And Rotties have been affected in a similar way. The Rotties I remember seeing were big, strong dogs but nowdays they are smaller & lack the bulk they once had. ( Perhaps it's just the shows that I go to, I don't know, but I am convinced "line breeding" has a lot to do with it! )

Haven't wittnessed any dane showings, so can't comment on it but the danes I have seen locally are still big units and are truly a wonder to see. Looking at the current breed standard for the dane, it dosn't say anything about "lanky, weak looking dogs with hugely drooping jowls & eyelids", so the danes you describe were not upto the standard they should be.
http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=191

In the regards to rotties, I challenge you to produce evidence of heathy, pure, adult rottie that is smaller, less bulky than the ones that you have seen in the past. I beleive the rotties are just as strong today as they were 30-40 years ago. Maybe the ones you have seen were over weight and looked more bulky? Its actually healthy for the rottie if they are a bit on the leaner side because of the known hip & elbow dysplasia the breed suffers from. its recomenned to keep them lean the first 12 months to help combat servere dysplasia in the future, we are actually thinking smarter and helping the breed instead of feeding them up and getting them bulky as possible.
If you look at the evolution of the rotti, it was a lean dog till about the 60's and thats when it got larger in the body.
again, you must be going to some terrible shows because the breed standard for rotties is very good and a good rottie looks very strong & confident.

the rottweiler is a medium to large size, stalwart dog, neither heavy nor light and neither leggy or weedy. his correctly proportioned, compact and powerful build leads to the conclusion of great strength, agility and endurance.

 

[Kitah]

If you get a dobe, as already suggested I would recommend getting one from a reputable breeder. as with pretty much any dog breed, they do have certain problems which are genetic, and reputable breeders try to breed these out etc. One that we've learnt a lot about at uni is Von Willebrand's disease, which is a recessive genetic abnormality that can cause abnormal clotting (Their blood doesn't clot, though different dogs have different levels of severity), and it is rather common in dobes.

 

[Australis]

Consider this gem:
"While it is utterly devoted to its human family, it is wary of strangers, does not take kindly to teasing, and if a warning growl goes unheeded, may attack without warning. It needs plenty of exercise and meticulous grooming. "

http://www.22dog.com/breeds/Komondor.html

 

[kakariki]

What the books say & what is actually going on in the show ring are, unfortunately, 2 very different things. We visited the Royal Adelaide & were disapponted with the quality of the Danes there. Without exception, they were lanky, had droopy eyes & jowls & had little or no chest depth. The were weak looking individuals indeed & if they are the best of the breed then I will pass, thanks all the same. The Shepherds were just as disappointing, & I have had Sheps forever! Maybe I didn't explain what I meant. I wasn't meaning the word for word "standard" as written in breed description but the show trends. As stated earlier, the Sheps went through an odd phase where they had to exhibit certain markings to be worthy for show. And its the judges to blame imo. They determine what they like & the breeders then breed for it. I doubt I'll buy pure again after Aragorn. He is just so healthy & free from weird problems etc.
PS, the Rotties to which I refer are smaller in height than those of days past. I have seen many which are under knee height! Is this the norm cos in the past those I used to come across were most definitely above knee height. And the width of them seems to have decreased also. Chest depth is less. Maybe it is just me but, having always liked the bigger breeds like Sheps, Dobes, Rotties Mastifs etc this has been my observation.

 

[mistymtn]

Its not a show standard or peoples personal standards im refering to, its the breed standard and thats the same standard used in shows aswell.
here is an explanation cut out from this site-http://www.vomlowenherzigrottweilers.com/rottweiler-natural-tail.html

Whiteyluvsrum are you involved in the dog show side of things? I'm just curious. You seem to know a lot about them.

Cheers

 

[whiteyluvsrum]

I have seen many which are under knee height! Is this the norm cos in the past those I used to come across were most definitely above knee height. And the width of them seems to have decreased also. Chest depth is less. Maybe it is just me but, having always liked the bigger breeds like Sheps, Dobes, Rotties Mastifs etc this has been my observation.

rottie's arn't ment to be massive, they are a medium to large dog. but in saying that there is crazy large line called roman rotties. they are not the standard a rottie should be and I wouldn't recommend them because they come with a lot of health problems associated with the extra weight and mass they carry.

correct height for males is 65-66cm
females 60-61cm

Body: Back: Straight, strong, firm.
Loins: Short, strong and deep
Croup: Broad, of medium length, slightly rounded. Neither flat nor falling away.
Chest: Roomy, broad and deep (approximately 50% of the shoulder height) with well developed fore-chest and well sprung ribs.
Belly: Flanks not tucked up.

Whiteyluvsrum are you involved in the dog show side of things? I'm just curious. You seem to know a lot about them.

Cheers

No, Im not involed in dog shows. Ive never shown a dog and I don't think I ever will.
I like to know things.

 

[notechistiger]

Um, Australis? Wrong link and quote

http://www.22dog.com/breeds/Doberman.html

A fine obedience and show dog, the Doberman can make a good family pet, but it needs knowledgeable handling and training, being wary of strangers and constantly "on guard." It needs a lot of exercise, and should be groomed every couple of days.

 

[gozz]

rottie's arn't ment to be massive, they are a medium to large dog. but in saying that there is crazy large line called roman rotties. they are not the standard a rottie should be and I wouldn't recommend them because they come with a lot of health problems associated with the extra weight and mass they carry.

correct height for males is 65-66cm
females 60-61cm

Body: Back: Straight, strong, firm.
Loins: Short, strong and deep
Croup: Broad, of medium length, slightly rounded. Neither flat nor falling away.
Chest: Roomy, broad and deep (approximately 50% of the shoulder height) with well developed fore-chest and well sprung ribs.
Belly: Flanks not tucked up.




No, Im not involed in dog shows. Ive never shown a dog and I don't think I ever will.
I like to know things.

We should call you the google dog lol

 

[PhilK]

I've heard too many stories of tails getting caught / broken etc because they were never bred to have tails.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm sorry WHAT?! That is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER heard...

They were never bred to have tails? They are bred and born WITH tails - that's the whole reason people cut them off! :lol:

Don't listen to those stories, they are complete bull-plop. There is NO medical reason or advantage to dock a tail as a pup. The only reason is selfish humans who want the look - and if you wanna put a pet you supposedly love through that, then go ahead :?

If your dog develops cancer/gangrene/some other legitimate reason then docking the tail is perfectly legal and helpful. But that is the only time.