Draft Code of Practice for the Private Keeping of Reptiles

[pbolomey]

Information Night for Reptile Draft Code of Practice

FOR PUBLIC COMMENT & INFORMATION NIGHT

Draft Code of Practice for the Private Keeping of Reptiles

You are invited to provide comments on the Draft Code of Practice for the Private Keeping of Reptiles (the Code). The Code was prepared by the Department of Environment, Climate Change and Water NSW (DECCW) in partnership with an advisory group consisting of herpetologists, exhibitors and representatives of the major reptile societies. The Code establishes a set of minimum care requirements that will help to ensure the welfare of reptiles held in captivity. These requirements will apply to anyone who holds a licence to keep reptiles under the National Parks and Wildlife Act 1974.
A information night has been setup to introduce the draft and give the oportunity to DECC to present it to the community. AHS president Mathew McCloskey will be MC the event, the presentation will be followed by the question and answer session.

The information night will be held from 7-10 pm on the Wed 11 November at the auditorium in Parramatta Leagues Club. This is an open invitiation to you our members and society friends.

You may comment on any part of the Code. You may choose to answer the questionnaire and/or provide a separate submission. However please ensure that you complete and submit the personal details section of the questionnaire. Your personal details will be kept strictly confidential and will not be passed on to any third party.

Download
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/wildlifelicences/09675DraftReptiles.pdf
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au//resources/wildlifelicences/09676ReptileComment.pdf

Comments may be submitted by:

email to [email protected], or
post to: Major Programs Unit, PO BOX 1967 Hurstville BC NSW 1481, or
fax to 9585 6666.
Submissions close on 11 December 2009.

Thanks
Pablo Bolomey

 

[orientalis]

Personally, i thank you for raising this issue at this time and giving us all the opportunity to have some input. Thanks.

I encourage EVERY reptile keeper to put forward their point's of view, or questions and concerns you all have, to show support for our hobby and give the Relevant Authorities a broader perspective of our individual views and passion we all share.

No matter if you don't have much experience, or if you have 40 yrs plus, if you have something to say, or ask, put it forward now.

The more replies the better.

Cheers.

 

[pythonmum]

Thanks for posting these. It is well worth having a read. Be sure that you differentiate between Standards (required) and Guidelines (optional recommendations) when reading these everyone.

 

[Serpentes]

Well, just spent 2 hours commenting on those guidelines. They're absolutely full of holes and ambiguities at present, so have a read, write out your points and send comments off!!

Thanks for posting them OP.

 

[beatlloydy]

I am only new to reptiles so wont officially comment...However, I was personally pleased with the Enclosure sizes recommended for Pythons as there was a lot of innuendo about having to have enclosures the size of a garage for scrubbies etc...It is good to see the enclosures I am ordering off Dickyknee meet the guidelines for my Darwin.

I guess those more experienced will see a lot more issues tho I personally have none...However, this is where the review comes in...good to see that they are asking for feedback as it is not always the case with a lot of government depts.

 

[Serpentes]

I am only new to reptiles so wont officially comment...However, I was personally pleased with the Enclosure sizes recommended for Pythons as there was a lot of innuendo about having to have enclosures the size of a garage for scrubbies etc...

One of my major points of concern is that the small enclosure sizes listed in the draft would influence the opinion of inexperienced keepers, and cause them to believe erroneously that small cages are acceptable for some species. Looks like you've proved my point, very strongly. At least I feel better now about spending an afternoon reviewing their holey document.

 

[beatlloydy]

One of my major points of concern is that the small enclosure sizes listed in the draft would influence the opinion of inexperienced keepers, and cause them to believe erroneously that small cages are acceptable for some species. Looks like you've proved my point, very strongly. At least I feel better now about spending an afternoon reviewing their holey document.

Glad to see you didnt waste your time...and great to see you are commenting on the draft. I only meant that the enclosures I ordered meet their requirements...I was concerned they may not but was assurred by Dickknee that they are fine.

Good to see you had an afternoon free to do something worthwhile whilst most of us were busy earning a crust. I am sure your comments will assist in making the draft a better document. As for me, I am still happy to stand by my comments as the enclosure sizes they mention all bear a similar relationship to many I have read here and in other publications.

 

[Serpentes]

Glad to see you didnt waste your time...and great to see you are commenting on the draft. I only meant that the enclosures I ordered meet their requirements...I was concerned they may not but was assurred by Dickknee that they are fine.

Good to see you had an afternoon free to do something worthwhile whilst most of us were busy earning a crust. I am sure your comments will assist in making the draft a better document. As for me, I am still happy to stand by my comments as the enclosure sizes they mention all bear a similar relationship to many I have read here and in other publications.

Oh dear. Read what I posted. I assume you're not housing M. kinghorni? Can we keep on topic of the draft and your comments on it?

 

[-Matt-]

I have just read through the draft and agree that there are holes, also I am concerned that some of the guide lines for housing are a tad too small (the water python requirement jumped out at me) and could persuade newbies into the hobby to house animals in these small enclosures.

I also have slight concerns over anyone and everyone being able to submit their opinion for the DECC to evaluate, this could cause many people that have no idea about anything jumping in with their opinions with no knowledge to back it up, kind of like what tends to happen on this site.

 

[beatlloydy]

Oh dear. Read what I posted. I assume you're not housing M. kinghorni? Can we keep on topic of the draft and your comments on it?

I believe my post is/was entirely on topic...I just dont like to be slandered by someone with semi cynical comments...as this is a public forum and we each are entitled to our opinions then my comments originally were entirely justified.

I am not officially responding to the draft...and just commented that the enclosure size related to the python I was keeping was adequate.....obviously you thought about it enough to edit your response a second time...the ("you have proved my point,very strongly") comment was totally unnecessary...Last time I checked we lived in a free society. What gives your opinion anymore weight than mine? I pay taxes and a government survey is the right of everyone to comment on...the fact that I choose to leave this up to others is of my choice only....now back on topic....nuff said.

 

[symbol]

Hi all

I think its a great idea to have standards. Correct me if I am wrong, I didn't see any 'height' standards??

 

[symbol]

Also, how is DECC going to enforce the standards? Will they be checking every repile keepers enclosures? (I dont have anything to worry about...just wondering)

 

[girdheinz]

One of my major points of concern is that the small enclosure sizes listed in the draft would influence the opinion of inexperienced keepers, and cause them to believe erroneously that small cages are acceptable for some species. Looks like you've proved my point, very strongly. At least I feel better now about spending an afternoon reviewing their holey document.

Would YOU have prefered mandatory enclosure sizes? This is what they were prior to the elected herp representatives tireless work on this document over a year. Not only did they get DECC to conceed on mandatory enclosure sizes and change them to guidelines only, but they put sensible enclosure sizes in that the needs of the particular animals CAN be met. There is no indication anywhere that larger than this in not appropriate, in fact, it is encouraged.

Hopefully we won't end up with "standard enclosure sizes" governed by a "tape measure" which it was until recently. Not only were these ridiculously large eg; 8ft by 3ft minimum for carpets, you could be prosecuted the way it was for keeping in anything smaller.

I'm glad the Glen Shea's, Peter Harlow's, John Weigel's and Gerry Swan's of the world represented the herp community.

I encourage anyone who wants to make comments to read the document carefully and consider their responses carefully. You have absolutely no idea what might have been set in legislation without anyones input. The group fought long and hard on this. This document has come miles and only sensible ammendments will be made.


The NSW herp community as whole would prefer not to have any code of practice at all, the only reason it's being implemented is for commercilisation of reptiles to occur in NSW.



Gird

 

[girdheinz]

Hi all

I think its a great idea to have standards. Correct me if I am wrong, I didn't see any 'height' standards??

Standards, or guidelines? Standards are enforced by law so you could have potentially been prosecuted for even temporarily housing your animal in something smaller than the original ridiculous sizes that were proposed.

There is no height suggestions just floor area, height is left up to the discretion of the keeper.

Gird

 

[girdheinz]

Also, how is DECC going to enforce the standards? Will they be checking every repile keepers enclosures? (I dont have anything to worry about...just wondering)

They won't be needing to do this as the advisory group managed to have cages sizes put in as guidelines and not "standards". This was a major breakthrough because if you didn't comply by 5 cm, potentially you could be prosecuted. Normal inspections can take place at anytime, as it is now.

Gird

 

[girdheinz]

I have just read through the draft and agree that there are holes, also I am concerned that some of the guide lines for housing are a tad too small (the water python requirement jumped out at me) and could persuade newbies into the hobby to house animals in these small enclosures.

I also have slight concerns over anyone and everyone being able to submit their opinion for the DECC to evaluate, this could cause many people that have no idea about anything jumping in with their opinions with no knowledge to back it up, kind of like what tends to happen on this site.

I also advise if people hold off for a day; a new survey form will be put up that takes into account experience and years of keeping to help validate the importance of responses. This was a serious error by DECC which they have acknowledged and it will be ammended shortly.

Gird

 

[dickyknee]

Well said Gird .

 

[FAY]

This thread will be locked until DECC make changes to their draft survey form.

Please be aware of the meeting at Parramatta Leagues Club where DECC will be in attendance and everyone can have their say.
This is for NSW reptile keepers ONLY.

 

[FAY]

The DECC have made their changes now.

 

[Serpentes]

Would YOU have prefered mandatory enclosure sizes?

I'm glad the Glen Shea's, Peter Harlow's, John Weigel's and Gerry Swan's of the world represented the herp community.

Just to clarify two things, not to bicker mate!

First point: Here is an example of where I think there is ambiguity, at least for the less discerning reader.

"3.2.1.1. The enclosure’s length or width must not be less than the snout-vent length of the largest occupant."

Clarifying when such a minimum sized enclosure would help. It be bad to see any lizard ( but picture a lace monitor) in such confinement for any period (outside of a shelter site!). The code elsewhere establishes standards that condtradict the keeping of animals in such small enclosures, I feel this could be worded more expressly?

Secondly point: I agree!