Feeding live mice

[cris]

I only ever feed live mice, once the mice are dead they dont seem to eat anything.

 

[OdessaStud]

lol very clever cris agree they are cheap to feed dead but how they get deaded is the issue i think

 

[jessb]

I only ever feed live mice, once the mice are dead they dont seem to eat anything.

They tend to stop running around and squeaking too I believe...

 

[jessb]

vinegar + bicarb soda reacts to form co2 gas.

What quantities would you need to kill a couple of mice?

 

[moosenoose]

i just cant kill a mouse or rat

Yes, it's hard. I've killed countless numbers of rats and mice over the years as all of my snakes eat fresh killed rodents, and it doesn't get any easier - I want it quick and humane. I think if you can do it with this in mind you are on the right track. Nothing should ever have to suffer a slow and painful death.

People who rub their hands of the fact that stuffing rodents into a freezer to die isn't a horrific way to go need a severe wake-up call! IT'S BLOODY CRUEL! SO JUST DON'T DO IT!!

Soon I'm going to buy all of mine pre-killed and frozen. Presently mine are dispatched via a very quick blow to the head through flicking them to a hard surface by their tail. C02 gassing sounds like the most humane method, and with a quick search through the site "search' feature should reveal plenty of examples on how to set up one of these chambers. I still get snakes from time to time who refuse to take anything other than live. Persistence and time is your friend in regards to this. Good luck

 

[Lovemysnakes]

Wow! Great forum - BOC here I come for that there CO2 gas.

 

[jessb]

People who rub their hands of the fact that stuffing rodents into a freezer to die isn't a horrific way to go need a severe wake-up call! IT'S BLOODY CRUEL! SO JUST DON'T DO IT!!

Although I don't have any experience with killing mice, from all I've heard in humans, hypothermia is actually a relatively easy way to die - your body just shuts down bit by bit until unconsciousness.

Also, from a couple of threads I've read on here, CO2 asphyxiation isn't much fun either - it's like drowning on dry land...

Realistically, we are talking about killing an animal - it's not going to be much fun for them whatever method we choose. The main reason for killing them is to spare them the extended death at the hands (or coils) of a snake. Maybe we should accept that there will be some degree of pain/discomfort for them, but as long as we don't extend it unnecessarily, it's just something we need to do if we keep snakes.

 

[GSXR_Boy]

Place the mouse near the edge of a bench and place a screw driver or pencil sideways across the back of its neck.
Put some pressure on the screwdriver and give the tail a firm yank from near the base,so that it doesn't pull off.
It is quick and painless.
Couple of twitches and it's dead.

 

[Miss_Croft]

NEVER feed live mice to your snake – Live mice can and will fight back. I have heard of accounts of a mouse biting the back of an Eastern Common Brown snake (One of the most deadly land snakes in the world) on the back of the neck – Killing it before it was able to strike the mouse.

To Kill mice – I believe the laboratory guidelines state CO2 – first a little and then a more – CO2 is heavier than air and will collect at the bottom of the bag/box. The guide lines also state cutting off their heads via a guillotine – Not suggested for snakes as they will have trouble telling the front from the back.

As others have pointed out – killing via C02 can be achieved by mixing Vinegar with soda bicarbonate, from bottle (Can be purchased for making soda water or from a gas supplier). I have read that a soda stream machine can be adapted to supply CO2.

Breaking a mouse neck is another quick method of killing it. This can be done by placing a screwdriver on the back of its neck and giving a sharp pull to the base of the tail. The third method is giving blunt force trauma to the mouse/rat’s head. As mentioned above this can be accomplished by holding the tail and hitting the mouse/rat’s head against a hard object (Brick, Brick wall, wooden desk) or just use a mouse trap.

Once your have killed your mouse/rat, you should freeze your mice longer than a month – This is to kill all worms (Protozoa) from the mouse before feeding.

As pointed out above placing a live mouse in the freezer is cruel and may result in bad press for reptile keepers - NEVER put a live mouse in the freezer.

Punching a mouse skull via a sharp object (Nail or the like) may not instantly kill the mouse, will produce blood and can be considered cruel (As above if caught doing this could result in bad press for reptile keeping – NEVER kill mouse via a sharp object.

NEVER feed wild mice to your reptile as they can introduce unwanted parasites or diseases. Not a good thing for any pet reptile.

If you have an issue killing mice/rats then buy them frozen from your local pet shop and again freeze them for a month before using them. (Just to be on the safe side)

 

[firedragon]

Why dont you just put a mouse trap in with your live mice. The mouse that gets caught is the one that gets eaten.

LOL nice one:lol:

 

[Tsubakai]

Although I don't have any experience with killing mice, from all I've heard in humans, hypothermia is actually a relatively easy way to die - your body just shuts down bit by bit until unconsciousness.

Also, from a couple of threads I've read on here, CO2 asphyxiation isn't much fun either - it's like drowning on dry land...

I'm sorry but these statements are both incorrect.

Hypothermia is intensely painful. Try jumping in the ocean when its temperature is at or near 0 degrees. The freezer is similar but much slower.

CO2 causes narcosis, essentially a form of anaesthesia so is much more humane.

Its a little more complex than the above explanation but I've tried to keep it simple without going into too much mammalian physiology.

 

[congo_python]

If your snake eats defrosted then you don't need to feed live.

Congo

 

[Miss_Croft]

I found this for all of those who freeze their rodents – It is the guidelines for Euthanasia of laboratory animals from Adelaide University (ANZCCART 2001). Turn to page 28 and note freezing of rodents is considered inhumane. Any “responsible” reptile keeper would not euthanize a rodent via an inhumane method ie freezing live rodents.

http://www.adelaide.edu.au/ANZCCART/publications/Euthanasia.pdf

I have not checked with RSPCA – but at a guess would suggest anyone caught freezing (deliberate or otherwise) would risk charges for cruelty to animals. (Reading between the lines – if you use freezing to kill rodents – then talking about it on a public message board like this one – it will leave your exposed the same as someone in Australia saying they keeping corn snakes or chameleons (exotic animals)).

For all of you who want to read about what the RSPCA say –
http://www.rspca.org.au/resource/Science15.pdf
Here is the ANZCCART news, Vol. 19, Issue Number 2 2006 the RSPCA site refers to:
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/ANZCCART/news/AN19_2.pdf

Summary – CO2 use for Euthanasia is not a perfect method – but it is the best we have at the present. There is some discussion around use of cervical dislocation (Placing a screwdriver at base of head and pulling base of tail)

Here are some more guidelines:
University of Tasmania – Turn to page 30
http://www.research.utas.edu.au/animal_ethics/docs/policies/code_laboratory_mice_rats_guinea_pigs_and_rabbits.pdf

University of Western Australia does not recommend carbon dioxide – but instead Cervical Dislocation – This may or may not impact reptile keeper methods of Euthanizing of rodents in Western Australia. http://www.research.uwa.edu.au/welcome/research_services/Ethics/animal_ethics/policy_documents/euthanasia_policy#preferred

University of Melbourne here in Victoria

http://www.research.unimelb.edu.au/animalethics/umawc/policies/doc/Euthanasia%20-%20released%20Jan%202006.pdf

There is a whole lot of stuff on CO2 not 100% humane – but it is still considered the best way to Euthanasia rodents.

 

[Isis]

A Soda Stream or the old fashion soda syphons. Mice/ rats in a bags held tightly over the outlet a few good squirts of gas and voila dead rodents. Easy peasy and less barbaric than the whacking trick.

 

[Isis]

Do some research.....humane, you have got to be joking.....hmmm if it were humane the laws would be different.

 

[Colin]

rodents are animals too and although used as food items for snakes should be given some respect and killed as humanely as possible.

That statement is not unlike ' there only snakes and the only good snake is a dead snake'

Hello guys i am a complete newbie....

thats an understatemnt. I noticed you have just gotten a licence and a first snake. Putting live rodents in a freezer is a cruel and disgraceful way to kill them.
If you knew anything at all about reptiles and had researched information about their care, feeding requirements, treatment of prey items etc before you got
your first snake maybe you'd already know that.

I"d suggest a crash course in learning correct procedures before you go posting garbage like that on a reptile forum.
Posts like that do nothing but alienate you with the people on here.

 

[itbites]

I get mine pre-killed and i like it that way i've spoken with the supplier and he believes "whacking them" is a horrible way to do it he recalls the horror story of watching the half dead li'l critters still moving and said he felt terrible. He uses CO2 now and infact showed me how it works i believe it to be the most humane way and if i had to go i'd pick that over a bashing on the skull any day. And as is stated through out this post every critter deserves respect and if you don't care if their suffering perhaps you need to seek help...mentally!

 

[caustichumor]

If you have one animal to feed then a flick of the wrist onto a brick would be the best way. I feed fresh most of the time and kill by whacking them, however when I have a surplus of a certain size I will gas and then freeze, The best gas source is the pure compressed gas, I don't like the bi-carb/vinegar method of co2 production as the smell generated by the chemical reaction distresses the animals.

 

[Miss_Croft]

itbites – You have done the right thing getting your mice pre-killed. Saves lots of issues with killing them - I also agree that whacking (Stunning) them is not the best method. (if done correctly – can result in trauma to spectators) If done incorrectly can course un-due pain and suffering of the rodent.

Danny35 – I suggest you buy your mice pre-killed until you have researched (I gave you some links to the current school of thinking around euthanizing rodents) on how to humanly euthanize your rodents.

 

[danny35]

How is bashing in their skull more humane than the freezer?????????
I do buy frozen because i could not do either method...
Sorry guys had a few toooooo many last night !!!!!!!