Fresh v Frozen v Old Frozen

[solar 17]

Over the past few months l have been running some food tests, basically fresh killed v fresh frozen v 6 months + frozen, as food for reptiles, some maybe interested some not. The test was done with [imo] three different groups of reptiles Womas, GTP,s and Spotteds[macs]...The 1st group l fed as normal, as l do [fresh killed] the 2nd group, rodents that had rodents that had been frozen for seven days the 3rd. group rodents that had been stored for six months plus, in each of these groups there were two snakes from each of the different species / groups all of the rodents used were bred by myself so as to have no variation in the hydration of the rodents used. So having to wait 6+ months was annoying but anyway, the 1st thing l noticed was the weight loss in the long term frozen food, on average 4-4.5 percent of bodyweight where as on the short term frozen food 1.5-2.0 percent. all of these items were weighed on scales accurate to point one of a gram and checked with tested weights.
Next issue that l noticed was in approx. 60-70 % of the sheds / sloughs l get normally they are near perfect in every aspect, even showing the hemi pene part of the shed / slough and nicely hydrated, which l have no proof of but like to believe it shows a snakes overall hydration to be very good. ln both other test groups l got only the occasional hemi pene perfect shed/ slough this is not to say other people don't get these excellent sheds
Weights over the next six months was another area that was noticebly different in percentage terms with once again the group on fresh killed putting on the most weight followed by the fresh frozen followed by the long term frozen, the three groups were each fed an exact percentage of body-weight as food, often requiring some food items to be dis membered to acquire the exact proportion as a percentage of body weight so standards could be measured against each other.
The next test l couldn't and didn't know how to perform and that is the percentage of breakdown of protein in the long term frozen stock, as a keen student of high quality protien l have sourced this test out to someone suitably qualified and totally independent in the 1st of two test results back the breakdown of amino acids is fairly considerable, for anyone not sure, in for example human required protien there are 22 amino acids make up a protien, a bit like building blocks although some laterally thinking modern biologists think this may vary from 21-23 with each of these aminos [in a general sense] performing a body assist function.............at the end of the day [imo] l believe it shows that if you feed frozen food from an unknown source you would be better off or your reptile at least if you hydrated the food item to compensate for dehydration during time frozen and as opposed to somone that feeds fresh killed maybe feed a slight bit more. eg. purchasing a reptile off someone that has been feeding fresh killed and has weighed their food out and you are going to feed frozen through choice or convenience l would suggest you maybe better off feeding slightly larger food item to attain their growth rates if you found them desirable
solar 17 [Baden]

 

[Ozzie Python]

intersting baden. one question- how did you defrost and warm the frozen food items? and were they wet when fed to the snakes?

i always wash my rodents briefly before sitting them in a bucket of hot water, and always feed the rodent wet straight from the bucket. be interested if this method helps with hydration rather than injecting water into the rodent.

i know some people place the rodent into a bag and feed dry- some snakes are fussy and wont eat a wet rodent i know, but i prefer to feed wet so atleast i know they are getting some water intake.

 

[Funkstaa]

an interesting read - thanks for sharing

 

[Waterrat]

Baden, interesting stuff but your experimental design had some flaws and the lack of replication and animals within groups render your results statistically untestable. That aside, how do you measure well-hydrated snake from not so well-hydrated one. I can't come to grips with the assumption that if the snakes are fed less hydrated food, they wouldn't compensate by drinking water. Have all the snakes had access to drinking water during the experiment? Were all the snakes the same age?

 

[Waterrat]

Sorry for being so harsh Baden, I didn't mean to. I just think you're putting a lot of effort, time and interest into your projects, it would be great if you could standardise it to research protocols and publish it. In literature that is, here, it will be on page 24 by tomorrow.

 

[townsvillepython]

I've been toying with something similar with a pair of coastals. one i'm feeding 200gm rats while the other is on 200gm quails both are fed weekly. so i took weight and length before i started, really just trying to work out what the difference in growth rates will be. so far the one on quails seems to have smaller stools then the one on rats but both are still shedding with a week of each other but its only been two months so far

 

[wokka]

From memory the weight loss on frozen whole carcass goats and sheep is about 2% but that is with their skin and head off and guts out. I would expect the method of packaging and quality/consistency of freezing would influence weight loss and nutrtional values. I doubt that water has much nutritional value and it is easily replaced though drinking.

 

[The Devil]

I've been toying with something similar with a pair of coastals. one i'm feeding 200gm rats while the other is on 200gm quails both are fed weekly. so i took weight and length before i started, really just trying to work out what the difference in growth rates will be. so far the one on quails seems to have smaller stools then the one on rats but both are still shedding with a week of each other but its only been two months so far

To do this properly you would need the starting weights of your coastals and then weigh each and every meal you give them.
Do that for several months and then weigh the snakes after a shed and then you can work out the ratio of food to weight for each food type.

I did this for my greens over a 9 month period. It was interesting that the percentage weight gain by the male and female was different.