Guy at SA Venom Supplies Bitten

[PremierPythons]

Cantil...

 

[BlindSnake]

opps thats some bad spelling...sorry.

 

[MrBredli]

Milking snakes would be so much safer if they just used venomoids.

 

[ilovepythons]

No exotic antivenom is produced for in Australia.....their exotic venoms go towards research purposes.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day guys,

I just typed a big long response and when I hit "reply" I got the white screen of death. They can put man on the moon but they can't make computers work properly.

I'll go through and answer, correct and comment on some of the things in this thread.

One of the new, young blokes at Venom Supplies was bitten this afternoon by a Mexican Cantil, Agkistrodon bilineatus, a South American pit viper that is notorious for its bad temper and general difficulty in milking. I won't divulge the bitten guys name, as it hasn't hit the media yet and he may not want people knowing yet. Unfortunately, it couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke, and by the sounds of it it was a silly mistake the everyone makes.

He hasn't had antivenom adminstered as yet. The won't administer antivenom to anyone until they are in intensive care, with their vitals been monitored, and then they will only adminster it once you start showing sufficient symptoms.

This is Venom Supplies first exotic snake bite, something that is highly commendable after over 15 years of operation. It has been over 3 years since their previous bite from a Coastal Taipan, so they definitely have their techiniques and procedures honed.

Venom Supplies have sufficient antivenom on hand for multiple bites from every species of exotic the keep. They are in regular contact with both Tanunda Hospital and Adelaide Hospital to confirm that they have antivenom for all species of native venomous snake. They also have an exotic snakebite protocol with details of everything a doctor could want to know, plus they are in regular contact with Julian White, Australias best envenomation doctor who is currently looking after the bitten employee. No stone is left unturned when it comes to safety...I should know, I did all of the above when I worked there.

On to the stuff not concerning the bite...

Australia is lucky in that we have the best antivenom in the world. My understanding of how venom and antivenom work is very limited, but the general gist of it is that compared to exotic species, our snakes venom is very "clean", and therefore so is our antivenom. I believe this is to be attributed to the highly neurotoxic components of our snakes venom, which is neraly completely reversed by antivenom. Again, my understanding of how this works in a clinical scenario isn't crash hot.

Getting in to the industry isn't easy, but it is definitely possible. When a job becomes available there, they receive between 100 and 200 applications. However, it isn't all action and glory like some people expect. It can actually become quiet boring. The one thing that it is good for is making handling venomous snakes like second nature, you can literally do it with your eyes closed. You can learn to manipulate and make even the flightiest elapids do exactly what you want with little effort, something that isn't recreatable in a private captivity setting. Watching someone like Nathan Dunstan or the late Tim Nias handle a venomous snake is amazing.

The money isn't fantastic, but it is at the higher end of the spectrum in the reptile industry, especially considering nobody there has formal qualifications. 5 out of 6 days is cleaning/feeding the collection, 1 day is milking.

Hope this helps,

Jonno

 

[urodacus_au]

I think Donk was referring moreso to the fact that if the snake was at venom supplies, it would of been there for the purpose of milking for anti-venom production, therefore the necessary anti-venom would be produced by them and not be inferior to native anti-venoms since its production would be the same as for the Aussie elapids.

Yep, was my understanding too. And with these animals are being milked on the premises youd presume appropriate antivenom would be kept on hand regardless of whether or not it was produced by that particular organisation.

Obviously doctors knowledge will vary as far as monitoring of the patient and treating for the effects of the venom, but thats the case with any snake bite be it exotic or not.
Jordan

 

[Macca]

Ilovepythons is very much accurate in that the doctors in Australia have very little to no experience treating exotic venomous snake bites. Upon treatment, a great deal of close attention must go to when to give the antivenom and how much to give. This kind of knowledge usually comes from previous case studies and experience, of which Australian doctors have little.

For a cantil (Agkistrodon bilineatus) (which has been stated in a post above to have bitten the employee), the antivenom used would be Bioclon Antivipmyn, which is prodcued in Mexico. This antivenom is used for a number of the American pitvipers and was used in the other case mentioned above when a keeper elsewhere was bitten a number of years ago. Venom Supplies do not actually produce the antivenom themselves, they milk the snakes and sell the venom or venom products, in addition to doing lots of research. Australian antivenoms are produced at CSL.

We definitely can think ourselves very lucky in Australia to have a reliable source of genus-specific antivenoms for our snakes of highest medical significance. This is a luxury very few countries in the world have or are ever likely to have.

Cheers,

Macca

 

[da_donkey]

Thanks for clearing up a few things guys, and back to the point, lets hope the youg fella is ok

 

[rodentrancher]

Must have been in the news Jonno, as I heard it on the ABC Radio this arvo approx 4.30pm. SA time that is. Cheers Cheryl. PS. Hope the guy recovers ok eh?

 

[cement]

Yep, all the best to you mate, hope pull through ok

 

[rodentrancher]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22132358-2682,00.html

AN EMPLOYEE at an anti-venom development company in the Riverland has been bitten by an exotic snake and taken to hospital in a serious condition.
It is believed the man was bitten on the arm while "milking" a venomous snake at Venom Supplies, Tanunda, about 2.50pm.
Company owner Peter Mirtschin confirmed a male employee had been bitten and was given anti–venom before being taken to Tanunda Hospital.
The company keeps more than 400 snakes from all over the world – every one of them is venomous.
They are all milked for their venom and after being freeze–dried, the venom is sent to research units to be made into anti–venom

Was not in the Riverland - Barossa Valley = near Tanunda to be exact!

 

[PremierPythons]

I know alot of pit viper bites are dry bites... Anyone know if this was the case here?

 

[Jonno from ERD]

G'day guys,

He walked out of hospital at midday today, without receiving any antivenom. It was very quick, single fang bite, so either very little or no venom was injected - I bet he considers himself very lucky!

Cheers

Jonno

 

[moosenoose]

Well that's good news he's alright.

Milking snakes would be so much safer if they just used venomoids.

Oh yes, and freehandling such venomous creatures requires the upmost of bravery :lol:

 

[PremierPythons]

G'day guys,

He walked out of hospital at midday today, without receiving any antivenom. It was very quick, single fang bite, so either very little or no venom was injected - I bet he considers himself very lucky!

Cheers

Jonno

Great news! As I said above there I'm sure I read somewhere that statistically over a quarter of pit viper bites are dry..

All's well that ends well...

Andrew

 

[krusty]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/health/milking-with-a-bite-to-it/2005/09/22/1126982153524.html

^ Says there are only two nenom farms in Aus (article is 2 years old) so i'd guess it'd be rather difficult.

They'd want to pay them well...

PRICE OF POISON
At Venom Supplies:
 A gram of brown snake venom costs $1560.
 Poison from a death adder costs $1830.
 Black tiger snake venom costs $650.
 Toxin from a snub-nosed viper costs $3890.

so i better not let my snub-nosed viper get me hey............lol.

 

[GravelRash]

ouch... hehehehe....

I've just finished reading all the posts n sum valuable info frm sum clever ppl... This was extremely interesting...Thanx

 

[falconboy]

I wonder how the guy is going to feel next time he needs to do some milking. Nervous I bet.

 

[nickamon]

Glad to know the young guy is ok!

I wonder how the guy is going to feel next time he needs to do some milking. Nervous I bet.

I bet he'll be nervous too, but hopefully that won't stop him from going back to work.

 

[shamous1]

Well said Donk

Can you explain for me why you think that Venom supplies does not have enough antivenom for a single bite from a species that they milk on a regular basis and why it is of a lesser standard (and lesser standed compared to what).

Im not having a go, just trying to understand your statement.

cheers

donk

I'm with Donk. If they are regularly milking these animals they will have anti-venom on hand.