Help ID shed skin found in NW Sydney

[1issie]

I was right it was a eastern brown and that was a guess!!!

 

[waruikazi]

I was right it was a eastern brown and that was a guess!!!

Well we still don't quite know for sure yet! You are turning into a mad little herper but, being able to tell the ID of an animal by a general kind of 'feel' (like you have here) for an animal is what you need to be able to do if you want to be a good herper. In the feild you often have to identify animals just by a patch of scales, or glimpse of a tail or a shed skin. The skill to do that only comes from experience and you are definately on the way.

If you haven't already got it you should hit your parents up for a feild guide for christmas. This is the one i use http://www.herpbooks.com.au/cms/oth...lypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=9&category_id=3 and a good place to get it from!

 

[Snakeluvver2]

it is a great book!
I bought it not too long ago, certainly helps when out herping!

 

[Elapidae1]

Don't know how far north west of Sydney but it could be a King Brown. I cant see the ventral blotches.

 

[waruikazi]

Don't know how far north west of Sydney but it could be a King Brown. I cant see the ventral blotches.

I have no doubt that it is not a mulga.

I've highlighted the most obvious patch of blotches i can see.

 

[Bushman]

...I haven't said anything because i can't tell what it is from the pictures provided. But i don't think it is a brown because i can see what i think are a row of supralabial scales that browns don't have, but i haven't commented because it could just be from the way the shed has curled up.

Brown snakes have supralabials, as do all elapids. Where did you get this idea from?

Like Steve, I can't see any ventral blotches. Maybe my eyesight's not as good as yours Gordo buy I can't see clearly visible blotches in the photos enough to definitively indicate Pseudonaja textilis.

Mrs Squizzy, can you post an in-focus close-up of the ventral blotches?

 

[moosenoose]

Well it’s a pretty safe bet that it’s definitely not a python, and to be honest, even if it was, with you living in NW Sydney, you’re living in a snake hot spot anyway (for everything! :lol If you've got one venomous snake in the area, you're going to have a stack of others! :lol: So cut your lawns and get the hiding spots off the ground (eg sheet metal etc). There are a few simple things you can do to make your property (I’m hoping) a little less desirable to them – hopefully they all head off into your next door neighbours place :lol: Now you know they’re there, you’ll be a little more cautious about rolling around in long grass etc

 

[waruikazi]

Brown snakes have supralabials, as do all elapids. Where did you get this idea from?

Like Steve, I can't see any ventral blotches. Maybe my eyesight's not as good as yours Gordo buy I can't see clearly visible blotches in the photos enough to definitively indicate Pseudonaja textilis.

Mrs Squizzy, can you post an in-focus close-up of the ventral blotches?

I know they have supralabials, all snakes do. The OP has cleared it up (they understood my post it seems), the way the shed has curled at the edges made it look to me like there was a row of subocular and a row supralabials. I said supralabials because it was the row above the jaw that looked not quite right to me. Hope that clears that up for you.

The spots on the belly are pretty clear to me especially in the pic i highlighted.

 

[Reptile-Man]

Im not sure but its large head point me to one direction, Mulga or king brown, dw the snake isnt as big as the shed! the shed stretches.

 

[Reptile-Man]

im not an expert at scale count but this scale count points towards a keelback.

 

[MrsSquizzy]

I hope that the new photo is of the ventral blotches - I'm a little uncertain as to what exactly was being referred to.

 

[bigguy]

Okay, you all agree its not a python. Correct... There are no Keelbacks or King Browns anywhere around Sydney. As for Kellyville there are only 3 elapids that grow to that size. Yellowfaced Whips, Red Bellied Blacks and Eastern Browns. So the answer is its one of these 3. But which one??? Work it out guys. Its easy

 

[snakeluvver]

Okay, you all agree its not a python. Correct... There are no Keelbacks or King Browns anywhere around Sydney. As for Kellyville there are only 3 elapids that grow to that size. Yellowfaced Whips, Red Bellied Blacks and Eastern Browns. So the answer is its one of these 3. But which one??? Work it out guys. Its easy

I'm pretty sure its not a whipsnake?

 

[Bushman]

Thanks for the close-up pic MrsSquizzy. The ventral blotches that we're referring to are large spots/blotches of orange-brown pigment that occur on the belly of the Eastern Brown Snake. They're more prevalent towards the anterior of the underside. If you have a good look at the belly scales towards the front of the body (on the shed skin of course!), you will probably see them. I should've mentioned this when I requested a close-up.
However, I can see some pigmentation on the posterior edges towards the sides of the scales in your close-up that suggest Eastern Brown Snake (Pseudonaja textilis).

 

[Elapidae1]

Okay, you all agree its not a python. Correct... There are no Keelbacks or King Browns anywhere around Sydney. As for Kellyville there are only 3 elapids that grow to that size. Yellowfaced Whips, Red Bellied Blacks and Eastern Browns. So the answer is its one of these 3. But which one??? Work it out guys. Its easy

That depends how far NW from Sydney with the K Brown. Oh and I can see the blotching now but it's caused a headache. You must have very good eyes Gordo.

Can someone please explain the supralabials to me, they aren't explained in my field guides.

 

[waruikazi]

Supralabials are the scales that line just above the top jaw. Supralabial scales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suboculars are the scales below or behind the eye.

 

[waruikazi]

More FYI

Snake scales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bushman]

Supralabials are the upper lip scales. The scales on the edge of the upper jaw.

 

[MrsSquizzy]

Thanks to all for the information and assistance on this. From looking at websites on the King Brown I agree they're probably out of this area also, and that the skin is an Eastern. The joys of wanting to have a backyard garden full of native plants!

Guess I'll just have to trust that this one has moved on to a new home now, and that my dogs aren't too inquisitive with any future snakes they might find.

Thanks again, and merry christmas to all.
Cheers!

 

[da_donkey]

KIngs (mulgas) are well out of your area probably the closest would be out Orange way.

Easterns and red bellys are what your doggies will probably come across.

the Red bellys prefer it around water co****s swamps ect (im unsure to what your property is like).

Yeah so just hope that the dogs are smart enough to just stand back and bark (for the snake and the dogs sake).

cheeers

donks